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Idea for proxy rework

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Comments

  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 440

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    A - Clearly you arent the smartest player. If i applied your logic to every merc youd look stupid, so lets do so.

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged

    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped

    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed

    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    As you see, you are ignorant.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    B - lmao youd be surprised that its happened a couple times XDD

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,388
    edited May 14

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    A - Clearly you arent the smartest player. If i applied your logic to every merc youd look stupid, so lets do so.

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged

    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped

    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed

    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    As you see, you are ignorant.

    where did he said in his word

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged
    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped
    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed
    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    where? because he clearly said

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do.
    If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    Expect things to happen =/= Dont go to Mine Spots

    predict that there will be mines near usual mine spots, so you dont go straight charging at usual mine spots and shoot any mine if you spot one on the usual mine spots.

    if you see on the scoreboard that the enemy has proxy, expect mines. If you found the mines you predicted, there is 2 ways to go about it.

    1. you shoot it
    2. if not possible to shoot it, go around it and shoot it so teammates dont get exploded by it.
    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 440

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    A - Clearly you arent the smartest player. If i applied your logic to every merc youd look stupid, so lets do so.

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged

    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped

    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed

    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    As you see, you are ignorant.

    I love how when you see people disagree with or criticize you, you immediately stoop to namecalling.
    Besides the point.
    I didn't say "don't go in a spot where there are expected mines," I said "expect them to be there." Like Gato said, if you know there's a Proxy on the other team, expect mines. Hell, even if you don't know, a good player knows to check in front of them before they exit an elevator. See, you think I am advocating for "avoidance", as in not facing a problem, but instead avoiding it. I am advocating for "expectation" and "proactivity." Notice how I didn't say "Don't go in that elevator," I just said to expect it and react accordingly.
    Here's a better way of saying what you thought I was saying:
    Have your gun drawn when you turn a corner so you can fight the person who may be around that corner.
    Cross a sniper sightline as quickly as possible to avoid getting killed, even if there isn't a sniper there.
    If you're outside, be aware of how many fire supports are on the other team, if their abilities are on cooldown, and where the nearest area for cover is.
    If there's a Javelin on the other team, be aware of her cooldown, and be ready to dodge or kill if she tries to fire at you.
    Having good gamesense doesn't mean you'll just be invincible. Everyone gets tripped up by random Proxy mines, every now and then. Everyone gets killed by a Kira laser when they're preoccupied, sometimes. Everyone ends up in a sniper sightline for too long sometimes, and get picked. It just happens. But you can avoid those deaths a lot more often if you know how things happen in certain situations.
    I didn't drop a flag on you for calling me ignorant, because that honestly wouldn't do much. You've been suspended before and you haven't really changed much since the suspension was lifted. It is a bit entertaining to watch you try to defend yourself in arguments that you've already lost, especially when the answer to most of your problems is just "git gud", but I'd rather see you shape up and learn to debate properly. Resorting to calling people ignorant because you're the one who doesn't understand the point of the argument doesn't get you in a position of intelligence or respect; it just makes you look stupid. You'd probably start getting a lot more people on your side if you stopped calling them pendejos and stupid, and you definitely wouldn't put you where you have 17 flags and the "ignorant" one doesn't have any.
    Look in a mirror, bud.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    A - Clearly you arent the smartest player. If i applied your logic to every merc youd look stupid, so lets do so.

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged

    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped

    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed

    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    As you see, you are ignorant.

    where did he said in his word

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged
    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped
    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed
    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    where? because he clearly said

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do.
    If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    Expect things to happen =/= Dont go to Mine Spots

    predict that there will be mines near usual mine spots, so you dont go straight charging at usual mine spots and shoot any mine if you spot one on the usual mine spots.

    if you see on the scoreboard that the enemy has proxy, expect mines. If you found the mines you predicted, there is 2 ways to go about it.

    1. you shoot it
    2. if not possible to shoot it, go around it and shoot it so teammates dont get exploded by it.

    A - the fact that you are asking this question means you have not read all of my response, and therefore your opinion is useless.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326
    edited May 14

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    A - Clearly you arent the smartest player. If i applied your logic to every merc youd look stupid, so lets do so.

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged

    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped

    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed

    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    As you see, you are ignorant.

    I love how when you see people disagree with or criticize you, you immediately stoop to namecalling.
    Besides the point.
    I didn't say "don't go in a spot where there are expected mines," I said "expect them to be there." Like Gato said, if you know there's a Proxy on the other team, expect mines. Hell, even if you don't know, a good player knows to check in front of them before they exit an elevator. See, you think I am advocating for "avoidance", as in not facing a problem, but instead avoiding it. I am advocating for "expectation" and "proactivity." Notice how I didn't say "Don't go in that elevator," I just said to expect it and react accordingly.
    Here's a better way of saying what you thought I was saying:
    Have your gun drawn when you turn a corner so you can fight the person who may be around that corner.
    Cross a sniper sightline as quickly as possible to avoid getting killed, even if there isn't a sniper there.
    If you're outside, be aware of how many fire supports are on the other team, if their abilities are on cooldown, and where the nearest area for cover is.
    If there's a Javelin on the other team, be aware of her cooldown, and be ready to dodge or kill if she tries to fire at you.
    Having good gamesense doesn't mean you'll just be invincible. Everyone gets tripped up by random Proxy mines, every now and then. Everyone gets killed by a Kira laser when they're preoccupied, sometimes. Everyone ends up in a sniper sightline for too long sometimes, and get picked. It just happens. But you can avoid those deaths a lot more often if you know how things happen in certain situations.
    I didn't drop a flag on you for calling me ignorant, because that honestly wouldn't do much. You've been suspended before and you haven't really changed much since the suspension was lifted. It is a bit entertaining to watch you try to defend yourself in arguments that you've already lost, especially when the answer to most of your problems is just "git gud", but I'd rather see you shape up and learn to debate properly. Resorting to calling people ignorant because you're the one who doesn't understand the point of the argument doesn't get you in a position of intelligence or respect; it just makes you look stupid. You'd probably start getting a lot more people on your side if you stopped calling them pendejos and stupid, and you definitely wouldn't put you where you have 17 flags and the "ignorant" one doesn't have any.
    Look in a mirror, bud.

    If you see an arty on enemie team, expect to be nuked every 20 seconds. If you see a javelin on enemy team, expect to die instantly. if you see a vasilli on enemy team, expect to get sniped every time you are in sight. If you see an enemy phoenix, expect constant instant heals
    still ignorant ^

  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 440

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    A - Clearly you arent the smartest player. If i applied your logic to every merc youd look stupid, so lets do so.

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged

    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped

    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed

    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    As you see, you are ignorant.

    I love how when you see people disagree with or criticize you, you immediately stoop to namecalling.
    Besides the point.
    I didn't say "don't go in a spot where there are expected mines," I said "expect them to be there." Like Gato said, if you know there's a Proxy on the other team, expect mines. Hell, even if you don't know, a good player knows to check in front of them before they exit an elevator. See, you think I am advocating for "avoidance", as in not facing a problem, but instead avoiding it. I am advocating for "expectation" and "proactivity." Notice how I didn't say "Don't go in that elevator," I just said to expect it and react accordingly.
    Here's a better way of saying what you thought I was saying:
    Have your gun drawn when you turn a corner so you can fight the person who may be around that corner.
    Cross a sniper sightline as quickly as possible to avoid getting killed, even if there isn't a sniper there.
    If you're outside, be aware of how many fire supports are on the other team, if their abilities are on cooldown, and where the nearest area for cover is.
    If there's a Javelin on the other team, be aware of her cooldown, and be ready to dodge or kill if she tries to fire at you.
    Having good gamesense doesn't mean you'll just be invincible. Everyone gets tripped up by random Proxy mines, every now and then. Everyone gets killed by a Kira laser when they're preoccupied, sometimes. Everyone ends up in a sniper sightline for too long sometimes, and get picked. It just happens. But you can avoid those deaths a lot more often if you know how things happen in certain situations.
    I didn't drop a flag on you for calling me ignorant, because that honestly wouldn't do much. You've been suspended before and you haven't really changed much since the suspension was lifted. It is a bit entertaining to watch you try to defend yourself in arguments that you've already lost, especially when the answer to most of your problems is just "git gud", but I'd rather see you shape up and learn to debate properly. Resorting to calling people ignorant because you're the one who doesn't understand the point of the argument doesn't get you in a position of intelligence or respect; it just makes you look stupid. You'd probably start getting a lot more people on your side if you stopped calling them pendejos and stupid, and you definitely wouldn't put you where you have 17 flags and the "ignorant" one doesn't have any.
    Look in a mirror, bud.

    If you see an arty on enemie team, expect to be nuked every 20 seconds. If you see a javelin on enemy team, expect to die instantly. if you see a vasilli on enemy team, expect to get sniped every time you are in sight. If you see an enemy phoenix, expect constant instant heals
    still ignorant ^

    As I said: git gud.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @B_Montiel said:

    @D.C.V. said:
    Proxy on FF on servers if even more powerful since there is no safe way to defuse her mines. Imagine having an aura station, guardian drone or any other deployables bunched up together and the enemy proxy throws a mine in the area; that's it, either the owners of the deployables will reclaim them before the mine is armed or they will simply walk away, shoot at it and lose all of them. I hate the fact that even though you can clearly see a mine in front of you there is no way of safely defusing it.

    Same for any powerful explosive, you know (unless there are a skyshield of course).

    And no, she is weaker in this context. In a lot of situations, what would be a usual mine location on any FF-off server turns terrible for your own team. It's very punishing, more than any other ability with FF-on.

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Juhiis said:
    We all know how annoying proxy can be. And how people use the mines in way that requires no skill or thinking. so i think the mines should not be lethal but do something else, like slow the player down for period of time and make lets say 50 damage. so proxy would actually need to be present when they explode.

    that would only make proxy more crap than she is now

    Pressing q anywhere and getting an almost guaranteed kill?
    Quickest engi allowing for fast planting/defusing/repairing?
    Cheap?
    Mobile?
    Did i mention can press q anywhere and can get a free kill for almost nothing?
    Has shotguns?

    wtf are u thinking?

    None of this is a strong advantage.

    • Most explosive abilities are Press Q to get a free kill. That's dirty bomb.
    • Quickest engineer generally means bad timing with the rest of the team, failed plant with no cover, 3 hits on head to kill which is terrible when repairing due to the current ev state.
    • Shotguns, while heavily used on pub, are terrible when playing against good players. Yes, they're cheap, but they're not efficient and reliable. ==> JUST LIKE PROXY

    Something being annoying to play against does not mean its good. And both of your posts shows the annoyance, not her being too powerful. Do you see 4 kdr proxy often ? I dont and there is a reason for that. Her lack of usage both in experienced hands and in competitive setups show her lack in utility in the whole game.

    Currently, team stack of proxy is proper hell on public games, yes. In fact, this issue affects 90% of the merc pool, believe it or not. 3 man stack of fletcher, bushwacker or turtle is just as cancerous as proxy, you simply don't see this as often because proxy was the public way to go engineer since the begining.

    A - Wrong, many require maintenance, aim, etc. Proxy you can literally press q anywhere and you have a high chance of a kill

    B - Wrong, you can plant on secondary objectives, and team could help protect, plus free plant exp.

    C - Wrong again..... only 1-2 shots to kill many mercs, plus the fact you dont need to aim it that much, plus you are fast so you can get in there well and kill kill kill

    Annoying generally means good ;p

                                _"what the hell are these newbies drinking"_
    

    A - People who has eyes, ears and have play dirty bomb more than 24 hours in-game are pretty much immune to proxy. Proxy takes advantage from stupid people who doesnt have awareness.

    B - Again, only dumb players cant spot a glowing red thing on the ground or on top of generator

    C - Shotgun "Was" OP but its not anymore since the TTK is pretty much the same with M4 and other generic guns (sometimes takes more time to kill with shotgun which is bad), but its still underpowered since pellets arent always hitting stuff and mercs like aura and sparks can easily outrun effective range of shotguns (except anhuld but proxy dont use anhuld)

    also what the hell, skyhammer is just "Throw marker at general direction" and get teamwipe with none of them being able to be revived because its gibbed.
    how is that not the best ability ever is beyond me.

    you can survive running over the mine if it doesnt have lock on but you cant survive skyhammer ability if you dont have unshakeable or guardian angel which is more like a last ditch effort than useful augment.

    Because light is visible around corners, in front/in elevators, etc. Noob Juice #2

    B - Youd be surprised how many dumb people play this game tbh

    C - Your right, not as OP, but still, way longer range means you dont need to get that close, reducing risk compared to that high reward

    D - Skyhammer is first a stock merc, they gotta make him easy, also, so is arty if you think about it, plus strike has designator & you need to aim it, you cant just toss it on ground in front of u and expect a kill, unlike proxy

    E - You cant, either proxer shoots mine while unarmed, or you run even near it OR long wall jump away and still get killed cuz they increased BR. They buffed proxy mine to a nuke

    As B_Montiel mentioned, she's fun to play but terrible to play against. You clearly don't understand the horror in proxy rotation week.

    A. Yeah, that's why gamesense is a thing. Learning to expect things to happen, rather than just reacting to them when they do. If you don't expect a mine at the top of the spawn elevator in Underground, you have bad gamesense.

    B. That's a player problem, not a game problem.

    C. I hate shotguns. So I agree.

    D. I want to see you drop a mine in front of you as soon as you spawn in as Proxy, and then give me proof that it got a kill. Or better yet, go to the most obscure random corner of a map place it there, and then show me proof of you getting a kill there. Also, stock mercs don't get a free pass, hell they need to be criticized more since everyone can use them.

    E. I think he was only talking about getting tripped up over it, not when you get drop-and-popped.

    Oh, and, everyone knows the horrors of Proxy in free rotation. And Vassili. And Javelin. And Redeye. And Nader. And Thunder. And Phantom.

    A - Clearly you arent the smartest player. If i applied your logic to every merc youd look stupid, so lets do so.

    Dont go near corners, halls, or anywhere where you cant see, you may get fragged

    Dont be anywhere in the sight of a sniper, you may get sniped

    Dont be outside AT ALL, you may get air-support killed

    Don't exist, you may get killed by javelin.

    As you see, you are ignorant.

    I love how when you see people disagree with or criticize you, you immediately stoop to namecalling.
    Besides the point.
    I didn't say "don't go in a spot where there are expected mines," I said "expect them to be there." Like Gato said, if you know there's a Proxy on the other team, expect mines. Hell, even if you don't know, a good player knows to check in front of them before they exit an elevator. See, you think I am advocating for "avoidance", as in not facing a problem, but instead avoiding it. I am advocating for "expectation" and "proactivity." Notice how I didn't say "Don't go in that elevator," I just said to expect it and react accordingly.
    Here's a better way of saying what you thought I was saying:
    Have your gun drawn when you turn a corner so you can fight the person who may be around that corner.
    Cross a sniper sightline as quickly as possible to avoid getting killed, even if there isn't a sniper there.
    If you're outside, be aware of how many fire supports are on the other team, if their abilities are on cooldown, and where the nearest area for cover is.
    If there's a Javelin on the other team, be aware of her cooldown, and be ready to dodge or kill if she tries to fire at you.
    Having good gamesense doesn't mean you'll just be invincible. Everyone gets tripped up by random Proxy mines, every now and then. Everyone gets killed by a Kira laser when they're preoccupied, sometimes. Everyone ends up in a sniper sightline for too long sometimes, and get picked. It just happens. But you can avoid those deaths a lot more often if you know how things happen in certain situations.
    I didn't drop a flag on you for calling me ignorant, because that honestly wouldn't do much. You've been suspended before and you haven't really changed much since the suspension was lifted. It is a bit entertaining to watch you try to defend yourself in arguments that you've already lost, especially when the answer to most of your problems is just "git gud", but I'd rather see you shape up and learn to debate properly. Resorting to calling people ignorant because you're the one who doesn't understand the point of the argument doesn't get you in a position of intelligence or respect; it just makes you look stupid. You'd probably start getting a lot more people on your side if you stopped calling them pendejos and stupid, and you definitely wouldn't put you where you have 17 flags and the "ignorant" one doesn't have any.
    Look in a mirror, bud.

    If you see an arty on enemie team, expect to be nuked every 20 seconds. If you see a javelin on enemy team, expect to die instantly. if you see a vasilli on enemy team, expect to get sniped every time you are in sight. If you see an enemy phoenix, expect constant instant heals
    still ignorant ^

    As I said: git gud.

    As I said: stop trying to look good by claiming you dont get affected by real game problems

  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 440

    @HadronZodiac

    As I said: stop trying to look good by claiming you dont get affected by real game problems

    Well you never said that.
    And I never said I don't get affected by "real game." I die to Proxy mines way more than I probably should for someone with almost 1000 hours in the game, I still hibernate behind a Turtle-Aura combo even if I know there's an Arty on the other team, and I've lost 90% of the fights I've had with a Javelin. I never said I was that good at the game.
    I explained gamesense to you, and how it applies in Dirty Bomb. Like I said, a good chunk of the problems you have with the game is a simple effect of you not being very good (yet?). If you know there's an Arty on the other team, position yourself in an area where you can take cover once you hear the Arty strike initiate. Don't just throw your hands up in the air and say "f*ck it, it's too hard." Git gud.

  • B_MontielB_Montiel Posts: 1,126
    edited May 15

    @HadronZodiac said:
    As I said: stop trying to look good by claiming you dont get affected by real game problems

    So far you've mentioned couple of issues you have with proxy, most of which are not to most experienced players eyes, and, on top of that, you dont come with any solutions to compensate. If mines are the most damaging single explosion ability, there's a reason for that, they'd totally useless otherwise, even in pub.

    Being stuck with the idea of annoying = good is a massive mistake, especially in this game. Are Phantom, Rhino, Kira and Proxy annoying to play against ? They sure are, because they're - under very specific circumstances - cheap kills grabbers. Are they good ? In very specific spot, yes, but that's it, and they turn totally underwhelming in the rest of the game, and more importantly, they're making kills that won't benefit to the rest of the team.

    Happily, servers have been so clunky during the last 6 months and his abilities got literally bugged up to death, because there's a hell lot to say about fletcher in the same way you do with proxy. He also got toned down since he only got 3 stickies and increased recharge rate, but he's still more potent than any other engineer in 90% of the game. You probably disagree, but that's a widely shared opinion. And you know why ? Because he's the most average engineer. He packs some punch which actually usable and reliable, biggest hp pool and potent weapons. More generally, average mercs tend to be the best choice for any single class.

    So yes, I totally consider those : Average/reliability = Good and Annoying = Useless.
    And every single update made annoying mercs further annoying and average mercs more... average. Yes, 3 years of balancing just worsen the gap somehow...

    You totally can disagree on that one, but we're definitely not playing the same game.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @MuddyGrenade said:
    @HadronZodiac

    As I said: stop trying to look good by claiming you dont get affected by real game problems

    Well you never said that.
    And I never said I don't get affected by "real game." I die to Proxy mines way more than I probably should for someone with almost 1000 hours in the game, I still hibernate behind a Turtle-Aura combo even if I know there's an Arty on the other team, and I've lost 90% of the fights I've had with a Javelin. I never said I was that good at the game.
    I explained gamesense to you, and how it applies in Dirty Bomb. Like I said, a good chunk of the problems you have with the game is a simple effect of you not being very good (yet?). If you know there's an Arty on the other team, position yourself in an area where you can take cover once you hear the Arty strike initiate. Don't just throw your hands up in the air and say "f*ck it, it's too hard." Git gud.

    Youd be surprised how many times i have, you just refuse to read it :D

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @B_Montiel said:

    @HadronZodiac said:
    As I said: stop trying to look good by claiming you dont get affected by real game problems

    So far you've mentioned couple of issues you have with proxy, most of which are not to most experienced players eyes, and, on top of that, you dont come with any solutions to compensate. If mines are the most damaging single explosion ability, there's a reason for that, they'd totally useless otherwise, even in pub.

    Being stuck with the idea of annoying = good is a massive mistake, especially in this game. Are Phantom, Rhino, Kira and Proxy annoying to play against ? They sure are, because they're - under very specific circumstances - cheap kills grabbers. Are they good ? In very specific spot, yes, but that's it, and they turn totally underwhelming in the rest of the game, and more importantly, they're making kills that won't benefit to the rest of the team.

    Happily, servers have been so clunky during the last 6 months and his abilities got literally bugged up to death, because there's a hell lot to say about fletcher in the same way you do with proxy. He also got toned down since he only got 3 stickies and increased recharge rate, but he's still more potent than any other engineer in 90% of the game. You probably disagree, but that's a widely shared opinion. And you know why ? Because he's the most average engineer. He packs some punch which actually usable and reliable, biggest hp pool and potent weapons. More generally, average mercs tend to be the best choice for any single class.

    So yes, I totally consider those : Average/reliability = Good and Annoying = Useless.
    And every single update made annoying mercs further annoying and average mercs more... average. Yes, 3 years of balancing just worsen the gap somehow...

    You totally can disagree on that one, but we're definitely not playing the same game.

    2 years is (imo) enough to be considered to have experience but mk kid

  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 440

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:
    @HadronZodiac

    As I said: stop trying to look good by claiming you dont get affected by real game problems

    Well you never said that.
    And I never said I don't get affected by "real game." I die to Proxy mines way more than I probably should for someone with almost 1000 hours in the game, I still hibernate behind a Turtle-Aura combo even if I know there's an Arty on the other team, and I've lost 90% of the fights I've had with a Javelin. I never said I was that good at the game.
    I explained gamesense to you, and how it applies in Dirty Bomb. Like I said, a good chunk of the problems you have with the game is a simple effect of you not being very good (yet?). If you know there's an Arty on the other team, position yourself in an area where you can take cover once you hear the Arty strike initiate. Don't just throw your hands up in the air and say "f*ck it, it's too hard." Git gud.

    Youd be surprised how many times i have, you just refuse to read it :D

    Read every single one of your posts on this thread, nothing in them that says I try to make myself look good.
    Why do you think that people don't read your posts?

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,388

    @HadronZodiac said:

    A - the fact that you are asking this question means you have not read all of my response, and therefore your opinion is useless.

    dismissing an argument because of your own incompetence is very telling on how you live your life imho

    im not saying you're some sort of failure, but people who fail in life tends to do this.

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @MuddyGrenade said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:
    @HadronZodiac

    As I said: stop trying to look good by claiming you dont get affected by real game problems

    Well you never said that.
    And I never said I don't get affected by "real game." I die to Proxy mines way more than I probably should for someone with almost 1000 hours in the game, I still hibernate behind a Turtle-Aura combo even if I know there's an Arty on the other team, and I've lost 90% of the fights I've had with a Javelin. I never said I was that good at the game.
    I explained gamesense to you, and how it applies in Dirty Bomb. Like I said, a good chunk of the problems you have with the game is a simple effect of you not being very good (yet?). If you know there's an Arty on the other team, position yourself in an area where you can take cover once you hear the Arty strike initiate. Don't just throw your hands up in the air and say "f*ck it, it's too hard." Git gud.

    Youd be surprised how many times i have, you just refuse to read it :D

    Read every single one of your posts on this thread, nothing in them that says I try to make myself look good.
    Why do you think that people don't read your posts?

    A - someone claimed i wanted to nerf aura to the @$!#
    B - Someone just said what i said a comment before on a dif post and trying to pass it on as their own
    C - want more?

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    A - the fact that you are asking this question means you have not read all of my response, and therefore your opinion is useless.

    dismissing an argument because of your own incompetence is very telling on how you live your life imho

    im not saying you're some sort of failure, but people who fail in life tends to do this.

    Dismissing an argument using insults is very telling on how you live your life imho

  • EoxEox FrancePosts: 3,205Moderator
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