Why I think the new obsidians are a gut punch to supporters who bought the previous versions

So SD showed their new planned obsidian operative rerelease. While there have been changes with the loadouts and the visual design of the cards , these changes go exactly into the direction where they really shouldn't go. When comparing the older versions with the newer ones it becomes obvious that there appears to be a pretty big misunderstanding from SDs side when it comes to these changes.
This is pretty obvious when comparing the original versions with the newer ones.

The old BL21 , when compared to the newer A31 , just looks worse. Out of the first three operatives it was the only one that was atleast viable when compared to other loadouts. However , when it comes to the best fletcher loadout the community (from what Ive read in the last two years I spent in this forum) usually goes for the BL32 or the A31. With the A31 being included now. What a coincidence.

While the old and newer stoker and phoenix are comparable , the new arty is one of the more obvious examples of what went wrong here.
The old B73 way more or less his weakest Br16 loadout. And the new version now suddenly boasts with the D43 his strongest Dreiss loadout.

This is what is usually referred to as powercreep. With the phantom and phoenix obsidians we were able to decide out of three cards we consider the best. Now SD releases an even better version and thus strongly tempts/forces me to spend money once again and let my other card , for which I spent real money, rot in my inventory.
This just pisses me off. There is a difference between making changes in loadouts to keep the exclusivity and releasing a straight upgrade to milk your customers once again.
Want me to buy the new aimee obsidian? Why would I if I know you are going to release a straight upgrades in a few months.
Not this way SD , not this way. I like Dirty Bomb and I have supported with purchases more then one time in the past. But if I know that Im being spit in my face this way I will reconsider my future choices regarding this.

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Comments

  • arharr3arharr3 Posts: 71

    Just to clarify this: my main complaint is that out of the four rereleased loadouts two are clearly better then the originals.
    If you bought one of these at their initial sale you had to decide between using a loadout which is clearly better , and the rather meh ones which boast a really awesome skin.
    But with the rereleases you can use both the best loadout AND the best skin.
    This is the main reason why previous buyers are supposed to be tempted to spend money again for the same skin and its what I see as shady here.

  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 235

    Just kinda sucks that the enthusiasts that bought all the original obsidians are no longer veterans that are recognised by those obsidians as older players. I originally got all the three obs for Phoenix and when some of my friends joined DB I became known as somebody owning cards that you can't get anymore.
    And since the new obsidian bundle will be available permanently every new player with a big enough wallet will be able to get those better versions of the old operatives.
    I would have been a little happier if those cards were only available for let's say a special week or something. Making them available all the time is kind of bitter sweet.

  • It's only power creep if you NEED to have these new ones. Which you don't, because you could always get these loadouts, albeit with a different skin. It's just cosmetics, people.

  • arharr3arharr3 Posts: 71

    @STARRYSOCK said:
    As someone who bought the obsidians,
    What do you really expect from a game in open beta? It's understandable things are going to change, even if they were implied otherwise. Yeah, it sucks, especially if you spent money on something only to have it come out again later, but that's why you can't just buy everything for the sake of having it.
    I get it, it's an @$!# thing to release an expensive card, then release a better one later, but it's not like you were ripped off. You knew the card you were buying, and if you only bought the cards for the sake of having the cards and not because you actually liked them, that's your problem.

    I do get what you mean, but I'd hardly call it a "punch" or anything of the sort. It's like buying a phone, then getting angry because a better one was released next month.

    Nobody forced SD when they made these "changes" (I wouldnt call a single changed symbol and a different loadout really different, since it still requires people to know what the originals are) to pick way stronger loadouts. They could have instead picked similar loadouts that would be on par, just like they managed to do with stoker and phoenix.
    Picking the best implies they expect you to pay again.

  • n-xn-x Posts: 786

    You have to keep in mind, that we wont be able to just buy the new obsidian operatives. They are only available as part of the new "elite all merc pack". Since the normal "all merc pack" is already $39.99 the one with the EO will be probably $10-20 more expensive.

    So players who already have a few/all mercs would have to pay $40+x just to get the load out cards. Adding to this, that they probably only really want a few of them, this will be a high price to pay.

    And for beginners, it will be a really high price to pay for a f2p game. Especially with the cheaper normal "all merc pack" in store. And the longer they wait, the more mercs they will unlock with in-game currency, the more unattractive those packs will become.

    So, all in all I wouldnt fear that the game will be flooded with new EO and the exclusivity of the first generation wont be tarnished too badly.

  • arharr3arharr3 Posts: 71

    Just for those saying the obsidian operatives were never advertised as limited edition: please watch this video again.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=H4J6z6ORXdM

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 2,173

    There was a name for this business practice, which I forgot.

    Best known in teleshopping. Where if you order now, you'll get one for free, or some other bundles, making excuse how it's a limited offer. When in fact they have truckload of products behind their backs.

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • teflonloveteflonlove Posts: 611

    @arharr3 said:
    This is the main reason why previous buyers are supposed to be tempted to spend money again for the same skin and its what I see as shady here.

    It's not going to be much of an issue if SD actually manages to separate skins and loadouts by the time the revised obsidian mercs are released. That way, owners of the existing weaker cards can change the loadout to a better one and don't have to buy them again.

    I guess we have to wait for one of the next videos before this clears up.

    Forget the cobalt Kawaii stick, better listen to some Kawaii rock.

  • arharr3arharr3 Posts: 71

    @teflonlove said:

    @arharr3 said:
    This is the main reason why previous buyers are supposed to be tempted to spend money again for the same skin and its what I see as shady here.

    It's not going to be much of an issue if SD actually manages to separate skins and loadouts by the time the revised obsidian mercs are released. That way, owners of the existing weaker cards can change the loadout to a better one and don't have to buy them again.

    I guess we have to wait for one of the next videos before this clears up.

    Yep , but so far SD is being SD which means bad communications. It has improved since the reddit AMAs became a thing (you see quite often posts from SD members on reddit) but they are really making it difficult for us to provide feedback.

  • binderrbinderr Posts: 183

    I never thought we'd see more obsidian cards for same Merc in such short period either. Obsidian cards were supposed to limited and very rare meaning if they come out you wouldn't see same merc obsidian again for very long time. But this is kind of pi$$ taking, especially for those who bought arty/phoenix/stoker/fletcher cards. I personally didn't simply for fact that the loadout cards were just terrible (except fletchers) even if they were obsidian release.
    Further more the new obsidians are packaged with all Merc pack so for a lot db player who have all Merc, there is no viable reason to spend ~40 buks when you only want obsidian cards. I hope SD offers those obsidian in a stand alone pack for us veterans to buy. B)

  • arharr3arharr3 Posts: 71

    @binderr said:
    I never thought we'd see more obsidian cards for same Merc in such short period either. Obsidian cards were supposed to limited and very rare meaning if they come out you wouldn't see same merc obsidian again for very long time. But this is kind of pi$$ taking, especially for those who bought arty/phoenix/stoker/fletcher cards. I personally didn't simply for fact that the loadout cards were just terrible (except fletchers) even if they were obsidian release.
    Further more the new obsidians are packaged with all Merc pack so for a lot db player who have all Merc, there is no viable reason to spend ~40 buks when you only want obsidian cards. I hope SD offers those obsidian in a stand alone pack for us veterans to buy. B)

    They will , as it was confirmed on reddit.

  • ImSplooshImSploosh Posts: 1,168

    Off topic, buuuttttt, we need Execution back so we can actually show off our skins. :'(

  • K1X455K1X455 Posts: 1,885

    @ImSploosh said:
    Off topic, buuuttttt, we need Execution back so we can actually show off our skins. :'(

    Execution is for the hipsters

  • NailNail Wpg, CanadaPosts: 3,534

    please get terminology correct, we have dedicated servers, the alternate is peer to peer.
    What you mean is owned servers and we've been told that won't happen

    moop
  • l2cl2c Posts: 103

    Well, with Aimee getting one loadout, it's not far fetched to assume skins will be separate in some way from loadouts, making what loadout your Obsidian has irrelevant. They might be giving the re-issue Obsidians good loadouts, because in the end, it won't really matter.
    On the other hand, they might just want you to double-dip. Will just have to wait and see :<

  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 235

    @arharr3 said:
    Just for those saying the obsidian operatives were never advertised as limited edition

    Literally the first sentence in the announcement video for Phoenix: "Hitting the store this Wednesday is NEW and EXCLUSIVE LIMITED EDITION obsidian operative look for Phoenix."
    Almost the same for the others.

  • Then... Don't buy them? It's not worth it. The collectibility decreases with the fact that it's bought and not earned. If anything I think there should be a way to earn obsidian cards in game. At the moment I feel like the only cards that have true value (to a collector) are founder cards, Alienware/Logitech cards, and any of the good gen 1 cards silver or higher

  • I'm gonna add that this was something directly requested by the community. SD can't pander to everyone's wishes.

  • B_MontielB_Montiel Posts: 1,091
    edited January 16

    @Nail said:
    please get terminology correct, we have dedicated servers, the alternate is peer to peer.
    What you mean is owned servers and we've been told that won't happen

    Please get terminology correct, he certainly means rentable servers :p.
    Owned no, as they indeed said we would never have access to servers binaries. Rentable yes, with small amount of parameters accessible.

  • WintergreenWintergreen Posts: 619
    edited January 16

    Didn't have time to read every response in this thread so my bad if this has already been said. I disagree with the OP. I don't think it's a matter of SD intentionally choosing 'more powerful' cards now to render previous ones useless and milk in extra cash. Which, to me, isn't even true because any loadout can be pretty viable and there have been plenty of strong Obsidians released in the past that I still use today. BL21 Fletcher is amazing. I use it far more than BL33/32 or A31 depending on the map, etc. There are only 9 loadouts to choose from each merc, and with G3 loadouts around the corner, of course you can expect them to want to pump out a few more while they can and it's not like they've got a world of options to select from.

    I won't sit here and count 'em all up because it'd take too long, but I'd imagine some mercs only have 3 or 4 G2 loadouts they'd have left to select from anyway if you account for previous releases and ranked exclusive skins like the Fragger and Aura. Do you really think they deliberately sold 'bad' cards initially only to turn around and sell the super-duper OP ones at a later doubt? They're giving people what they want and I'm sure they've got entire teams looking at the analytics of which loadouts are played the most. Sure, they profit because they should, but it's also giving people what they want. Nobody forced you to buy the older ones and nobody is forcing you to now so I don't understand how this is a big complaint. Lastly, we have Bronze loadouts so that of course shuts down any P2W money-grab implications. This would be like me complaining to my truck manufacturer because my 2-year-old model isn't as good or popular as the one they just released.

  • NailNail Wpg, CanadaPosts: 3,534

    @B_Montiel said:

    @Nail said:
    please get terminology correct, we have dedicated servers, the alternate is peer to peer.
    What you mean is owned servers and we've been told that won't happen

    Please get terminology correct, he certainly means rentable servers :p.
    Owned no, as they indeed said we would never have access to servers binaries. Rentable yes, with small amount of parameters accessible.

    we have dedicated servers, that's what he asked for and we're getting rentable servers, they just aren't what he wants

    moop
  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,704Special Editor
    edited January 16

    I just have to disagree with OP. Look, Splash Damage is moving in a hugely different direction with loadout cards, and I don't think you should be angered by the choice as it's a positive one for Dirty Bomb as a whole.

    Also, your argument seriously paints SD as milking their community, when in fact it's a great deal (the one on Steam). I think you're going to be very pleased by the upcoming changes in the next month and a half. Sometimes we have to take a little bit of trash to move forward, and our past spending we see as our investment for ourselves, rather than one for a company.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • JasoJaso Posts: 125

    the bigger problem is not that SD trying to milking their community ... its that they label almost everything as "limited" and after few months they re-release it

  • PtilouiPtiloui Posts: 484

    @Moobabes said:
    I was going to save my reply for the patch notes, but know that if you own the original Obsidian Operative Loadouts you WILL NOT need to buy them again.

    SO, this correlate what @Xenithos talked about in his/her post before it slipped away and got closed. (http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/38875/future-loadout-card-system-hinted-by-shoe)

    And these are really great news !!

  • JasoJaso Posts: 125

    @Moobabes said:
    I was going to save my reply for the patch notes, but know that if you own the original Obsidian Operative Loadouts you WILL NOT need to buy them again.

    ok but thats not gonna make u look cool in eyes of old players who already got em cause u lied, when u said first obsidian operative were "limited"

  • Notice how all the new obsidian operative loadouts are the same as the new default cards coming... Dunno what this means considering they said there is no need for 3rd gen cards hinting about some change to do with augments but too early to tell.

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