Guardian | Is she really a medic?

Hey guys, I don't want to add much to this now - but many of you may also have noticed that Guardian lacks in "Medic-Skills", I for example had always thought Guardian would need something to heal her fellow players, because she really now has NO other real function than preventing a few airstrikes, grenades or bombs; ALTHOUGH even that's quite idiotic, because the Sky Shield has so little time - as I first heard of Guardian I thought of her Sky Shield as a deployable with endless time until it gets destroyed, what would make at least a little more sene because it can be destroyed very easily anyway ; the latter is not a good argument, I know but most of the time it just gets destroyed by its limited time, so you always have to look out to get the Sky Shield planted again which first of all (due to its function, and that you have to look out it has some use and doesn't get destroyed) really prevents you from playing properly (not the most ragic point; BUT)-> you just don't even get much XP with it - and the fact that she has the same speed Phoenix but 10 more health and uses ARs doesn't really make the possibilites of gameplay with here greater and/or better, but also really prevents your way of playing with her, because you can think you can rush with her a little more - BUT YOU REALLY CAN'T ;

I don't know if such a discussion has yet been created, maybe even here in this forum - which I think it probably has, but I don't think it ever had any positive result; perhaps in the form of SD thinking about (or maybe even a way of ..) improving her -

SO MY point now to create this discussion is, if you want to additionally give Guardian a Bionic Pulse to give here a good attribute to use, so that she's really considered a MEDIC- you should also give her something to heal (her) and of course other people! And not make her as half fire support and equip her with the ability of planting a low health low limited time sky shield for the more competetive part of the game with , well about the over lvl. 50 players in it - just because they thought a few airstrikes needed to be possible to be prevented by something like that; THEN YOU ADD HER AS A MERC FOR ONLY THAT FUNCTION AND MAKE HER HALF MEDIC AND HALF FIRE SUPPORT WITH THIS ADDITIONAL FUNCTION - so I beg to differ. BTW I know this is a litte ( BUT ONLY A LITTLE) late for Guardian Feedback and such uhhh "criticism"? on her..... Please, do something about it - and I hope I can get the support of a few people here; and start a reasonable discussion! I think you who played themselves with Guardian know what I'm talking about
or even just experienced her being played by someone else

Comments

  • Actually, she's the link between medic and engineer group.
    Much like Phantom to Assault and Recon, and Javelin to Assault and Support.
    Only 2 links left to bind: Recon/Engineer and Support/Medic, wonder how'll these mercs turn out to be...

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • Mr-PenguinMr-Penguin Posts: 2,250
    edited December 2017

    @TheStrangerous said:
    Actually, she's the link between medic and engineer group.
    Much like Phantom to Assault and Recon, and Javelin to Assault and Support.
    Only 2 links left to bind: Recon/Engineer and Support/Medic, wonder how'll these mercs turn out to be...

    Time for some fast merc ideas (that are based on old concepts of mine)! Balance will be questionable.

    Recon/Engineer- Discord- 2 abilities + passive
    Disruptor Grenade
    Toss a grenade that "explodes" with a burst of white noise shortly after impact, disabling enemy HUD and objective notifications ("Defuse the bloody C4!") for up to 7 seconds based on distance from the initial blast. Any notifications missed will be played back after the effect ends.
    Null Emitter
    Deploy a medium-sized cylindrical device that instantly activates, creating a noise canceling area roughly the size of Aura's Health Station radius. All noises made by allies within the Emitter's AoE are inaudible to enemies outside. Should you or an ally begin or complete a repair/plant/disarm action within the Emitter's radius, all visual and audio notifiers are delayed for the enemy team for 5 seconds.
    Fake It Till You Make It (passive)
    Discord completes objectives at 1.5X speed (50% faster than non-engineers, stacks with Mechanic).

    Fire Support/Medic- Emissary- 2 abilities
    Static Generator
    Toss a small generator thingamabob a short distance that slowly damages the EV and generators in its AoE and slows the latter by 20%. Enemies that use any ability in the AoE of a Static Generator take 40 damage (ability still function as normal). This effect can only occur once every 5 seconds.

    Allies that are downed in the AoE of a Generator are revived with 75% of their maximum HP after a 2-second delay.

    Care Package
    Toss a package that gives you or an ally 2 magazines of ammo and 50 HP when picked up. On direct hit, Care Package refills the ally's current magazine and heals for an additional 10 HP.

    0egQoN7.png
    Art courtesy of @Matuno
    IGN/Steam Profile Mr. Penguin
    Have an idea for a new merc? Then head on over to my Mercenary Suggestion Form and go post it!
  • Rokon2Rokon2 Posts: 115

    I treat Guardian as a Support Assault hybrid. When the revive gets fixed up, I imagine I'll be able to effectively heal people more. However, not having the healing capabilities that a normal healer has is a huge detriment. Like, sure I can deny aerial projectiles, but having more sustain is probably more important.

  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 235

    I don't even play Guardian as a medic to begin with (when I happen to get around the fact that her concept just seems dumb to me in the first place but that's just my opinion).
    Most of the time I use her like a firesupport that can help her team up every once in a while a little bit faster.
    And I don't get why she became a medic in the first place, it just seems like such a big wasted potential (like seriously she is literally the "Skyhammer-Negative").
    I don't think that they are going to rework her completely it just wouldn't make sense, but please just give me a reason to choose her between my favourite lifesaviours or the Airstriking powerhouses.

  • @Da_Mummy said:
    I don't even play Guardian as a medic to begin with (when I happen to get around the fact that her concept just seems dumb to me in the first place but that's just my opinion).
    Most of the time I use her like a firesupport that can help her team up every once in a while a little bit faster.
    And I don't get why she became a medic in the first place, it just seems like such a big wasted potential (like seriously she is literally the "Skyhammer-Negative").
    I don't think that they are going to rework her completely it just wouldn't make sense, but please just give me a reason to choose her between my favourite lifesaviours or the Airstriking powerhouses.

    I agree. But, seriously she is officially classified as a Medic so I think she really needs something to heal people, maybe just health packs. I mean sure 2 Medics already have Health packs as healing a ability (Sparks, Sawbonez) - maybe you could make a third kind of health pack in some way - that's not the best idea , but I think something in this direction could be figured out by the SplashDamage team.

    Well, the most significant NEGATIVE part about Guardian now IS that she is sort of a mixture between two classes/ functions; BECAUSE every Merc should be treated as a character with a single unique function for ITS CLASS and not for two DIFFERENT purposes, so she should either be treated as a medic accordingly (I'd like that better, but that's "just" my opinion), but don't change her completely- so I mean you don't have to change her primary abilitiy but just give her something else as maybe even kind of a passive ability like Javelin's Ammo Field Guardian could get something like that which gives health ( just an idea; because that wouldn't completely work, 'cause it'd sort of steal the health stations function) in some manner or maybe on certain occasions, or as I said give her another healing ability (like packs - health packs). And so either she should be treated as a medic like I said or maybe advance her Fire Support/Assault or whatever function for which purpose she is used, BUT, and that's something I want to propose now as a fix for that directly, for that purpose her stats and movement style/play style (IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN...) are just too weak. SO AS I SAID - the main point of her is; she needs to be fixed for one main purpose/function and class so that she can either very much be classified as a MEDIC or, well, something else with (maybe still or not) the ability to revive!. POINT OUT OVER Youho

  • @Mr-Penguin said:
    Recon/Engineer- Discord- 2 abilities + passive
    Disruptor Grenade
    Toss a grenade that "explodes" with a burst of white noise shortly after impact, disabling enemy HUD and objective notifications ("Defuse the bloody C4!") for up to 7 seconds based on distance from the initial blast. Any notifications missed will be played back after the effect ends.
    Null Emitter
    Deploy a medium-sized cylindrical device that instantly activates, creating a noise canceling area roughly the size of Aura's Health Station radius. All noises made by allies within the Emitter's AoE are inaudible to enemies outside. Should you or an ally begin or complete a repair/plant/disarm action within the Emitter's radius, all visual and audio notifiers are delayed for the enemy team for 5 seconds.
    Fake It Till You Make It (passive)
    Discord completes objectives at 1.5X speed (50% faster than non-engineers, stacks with Mechanic).

    1/10 No pickaxe melee, unable to draw Lego and "Quicena" crowd into DB.
    BUT WAIT:
    If all 5 hybrid mercs will form a circle of merc groups, by linking it...
    Then in the center of it is... THE ULTIMATE UN-NERFABLE MERC, THE BEGINNING OF DB:

    @NK.NewNightmare said:

    Well, the most significant NEGATIVE part about Guardian now IS that she is sort of a mixture between two classes/ functions; BECAUSE every Merc should be treated as a character with a single unique function for ITS CLASS and not for two DIFFERENT purposes, so she should either be treated as a medic accordingly (I'd like that better, but that's "just" my opinion), but don't change her completely- so I mean you don't have to change her primary abilitiy but just give her something else as maybe even kind of a passive ability like Javelin's Ammo Field Guardian could get something like that which gives health ( just an idea; because that wouldn't completely work, 'cause it'd sort of steal the health stations function) in some manner or maybe on certain occasions, or as I said give her another healing ability (like packs - health packs). And so either she should be treated as a medic like I said or maybe advance her Fire Support/Assault or whatever function for which purpose she is used, BUT, and that's something I want to propose now as a fix for that directly, for that purpose her stats and movement style/play style (IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN...) are just too weak. SO AS I SAID - the main point of her is; she needs to be fixed for one main purpose/function and class so that she can either very much be classified as a MEDIC or, well, something else with (maybe still or not) the ability to revive!. POINT OUT OVER Youho

    I think everyone wouldn't have huge gripes with merc group labels, if they didn't label Guardian as "Medic". Same with Phantom and Jav.

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • @TheStrangerous said:

    @Mr-Penguin said:
    Recon/Engineer- Discord- 2 abilities + passive
    Disruptor Grenade
    Toss a grenade that "explodes" with a burst of white noise shortly after impact, disabling enemy HUD and objective notifications ("Defuse the bloody C4!") for up to 7 seconds based on distance from the initial blast. Any notifications missed will be played back after the effect ends.
    Null Emitter
    Deploy a medium-sized cylindrical device that instantly activates, creating a noise canceling area roughly the size of Aura's Health Station radius. All noises made by allies within the Emitter's AoE are inaudible to enemies outside. Should you or an ally begin or complete a repair/plant/disarm action within the Emitter's radius, all visual and audio notifiers are delayed for the enemy team for 5 seconds.
    Fake It Till You Make It (passive)
    Discord completes objectives at 1.5X speed (50% faster than non-engineers, stacks with Mechanic).

    1/10 No pickaxe melee, unable to draw Lego and "Quicena" crowd into DB.
    BUT WAIT:
    If all 5 hybrid mercs will form a circle of merc groups, by linking it...
    Then in the center of it is... THE ULTIMATE UN-NERFABLE MERC, THE BEGINNING OF DB:

    @NK.NewNightmare said:

    Well, the most significant NEGATIVE part about Guardian now IS that she is sort of a mixture between two classes/ functions; BECAUSE every Merc should be treated as a character with a single unique function for ITS CLASS and not for two DIFFERENT purposes, so she should either be treated as a medic accordingly (I'd like that better, but that's "just" my opinion), but don't change her completely- so I mean you don't have to change her primary abilitiy but just give her something else as maybe even kind of a passive ability like Javelin's Ammo Field Guardian could get something like that which gives health ( just an idea; because that wouldn't completely work, 'cause it'd sort of steal the health stations function) in some manner or maybe on certain occasions, or as I said give her another healing ability (like packs - health packs). And so either she should be treated as a medic like I said or maybe advance her Fire Support/Assault or whatever function for which purpose she is used, BUT, and that's something I want to propose now as a fix for that directly, for that purpose her stats and movement style/play style (IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN...) are just too weak. SO AS I SAID - the main point of her is; she needs to be fixed for one main purpose/function and class so that she can either very much be classified as a MEDIC or, well, something else with (maybe still or not) the ability to revive!. POINT OUT OVER Youho

    I think everyone wouldn't have huge gripes with merc group labels, if they didn't label Guardian as "Medic". Same with Phantom and Jav.

    No, I just do that 'cause I oriented myself much on the DirtyBomb Wikia

  • http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Dirty_Bomb_Wiki - since the beginning of my playtime

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 2,173
    edited December 2017

    @NK.NewNightmare said:
    http://dirtybomb.wikia.com/wiki/Dirty_Bomb_Wiki - since the beginning of my playtime

    Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

    Now we know the next Engineer/Recon or Support/Medic hybrids, will be named with initial letters from B-F and F-N!

    Oh wait, we can't have Support/Medic, but Assault/Medic or Assault/Engineer hybrid... So many assault hybrids...

    Post edited by TheStrangerous on

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • LifeupOmegaLifeupOmega Posts: 2,056
    edited December 2017

    Guardian is fine. Only thing SD screwed up is her lack of Tough or Looter augments on cards. Makes self sustain a nightmare considering that virtually any other non-healing merc has access to one or the other.

    Instead we get 3 Double Time + Baton cards and some other useless stuff.

    Reminder that it's always okay to vote kick a sniper, no matter how well they're doing.
  • We already have Assault-Engineer hybrid and that is mr fletcha
    Nader is Firesupport-Assault hybrid with more emphasis on Assault and can deny area much longer than Kira or Skyhammer (except arty, arty have 2 charge)

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,503

    @GatoCommodore said:
    We already have Assault-Engineer hybrid and that is mr fletcha
    Nader is Firesupport-Assault hybrid with more emphasis on Assault and can deny area much longer than Kira or Skyhammer (except arty, arty have 2 charge)

    Nader? You mean Javelin?

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,326

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:
    We already have Assault-Engineer hybrid and that is mr fletcha
    Nader is Firesupport-Assault hybrid with more emphasis on Assault and can deny area much longer than Kira or Skyhammer (except arty, arty have 2 charge)

    Nader? You mean Javelin?

    i mean Nader
    most assault dont have area denial capability while nader can do area denial like fire support and kill enemies/damage enemies consistently with her grenade launcher.

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,503

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:
    We already have Assault-Engineer hybrid and that is mr fletcha
    Nader is Firesupport-Assault hybrid with more emphasis on Assault and can deny area much longer than Kira or Skyhammer (except arty, arty have 2 charge)

    Nader? You mean Javelin?

    i mean Nader
    most assault dont have area denial capability while nader can do area denial like fire support and kill enemies/damage enemies consistently with her grenade launcher.

    Never really considered area denial a definition of fire support to be honest, a good Rhino and Aura or a few Thunder can really deny people and I just wouldn't consider them fire support.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,326

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:
    We already have Assault-Engineer hybrid and that is mr fletcha
    Nader is Firesupport-Assault hybrid with more emphasis on Assault and can deny area much longer than Kira or Skyhammer (except arty, arty have 2 charge)

    Nader? You mean Javelin?

    i mean Nader
    most assault dont have area denial capability while nader can do area denial like fire support and kill enemies/damage enemies consistently with her grenade launcher.

    Never really considered area denial a definition of fire support to be honest, a good Rhino and Aura or a few Thunder can really deny people and I just wouldn't consider them fire support.

    all fire support can effectively deny an entire passage with indirect fire for more than 5 second alone while others (thunder, fragger, aura, rhino) needs to be in the area to deny the passage which means you can get shot, exploded, stabbed etc. while firesupport can deny an area without taking the risk to get shot or exploded because indirect fire and use of wall.

    nader can be better than some of the firesupport (arty. skyhammer) because she can spam her grenades for a long time in a passage relying on footstep sound and wall to bounce grenade.

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • spectre_ncspectre_nc Posts: 7
    edited January 7

    I've been playing with Guardian for a while now (just pubs) and while she is very strong combat-wise, she has important drawbacks and some things that could be slightly buffed.

    Skyshield
    Her Skyshield seems to be underrated but is actually really strong if used correctly. It basically forces all projectile-using mercs to move out of vantage points and in gun fights (like attackers repairing the ev), where her main weapons, excellent speed and decent health mean she can defend engineers with relative ease. My main gripes are that kira's laser ignores it and the long deploying time, which is odd considering it is not meant to be an aura station for airstrikes but more a tool for specific situations. (Like medpacks)

    Biopulse
    Her bio-pulse is weak. The ability to rez multiple teammates at once is rarely useful and the health from a quick rez is so pitiful and the cooldown so severe that Recharge and Get up are almost mandatory. And you can't cancel the charging like you do with the paddles, so if the teammate that you wanted to rez is gibbed, well tough @$!# for you, you get several seconds of no medic abilities, which most of the times means the other downed teammate gets gibbed while you wait for your pulse.

    Changes I'd like
    Biopulse health on rez increased (+ 30% min health or free Get Up) OR cooldown reduction (20-25% based on feel, don't take the numbers too seriously)
    Ability to switch cancel the bio pulse giving back 75% of the cooldown

    Skyshield deploy time halved and at least some damage reduction to kira's laser, or alternatively 2-2.5 seconds of invulnerability from it before the laser destroys it

    Post edited by spectre_nc on
  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 2,303

    Besides for the Kira laser part I agree with this. Besides for her, Phantom is the only one who's ability has any effect against it (especially when it's with Aura/Rhino).

    MakeMachinePistolsGoodAgain

  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 174
    edited January 11

    If they don't buff her healing and nerf her health then I just don't get it.

    Post edited by woodchip on
  • WulieWulie Posts: 31

    Why nerf her health? Its the thing that makes her special- high health, AR, lesser healing. I would just buff her Pulse (so it has no CD) and it would be well.

  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 174

    @Wulie said:
    Why nerf her health? Its the thing that makes her special- high health, AR, lesser healing. I would just buff her Pulse (so it has no CD) and it would be well.

    It wouldn't be well because you would be making one of the best duelers in the game also a viable medic. Guardian would be very overpowered if she were anything better than awful in her medic roll, because 110 HP and very fast move speed + ARs is one of the absolute best dueling kits in the game.

  • Rokon2Rokon2 Posts: 115

    Guardian still feels on the clunky side, especially with the way Bio-Pulse works. There's too many drawbacks and not enough reward as it is for me to warrant using Bio-Pulse over just paddles. Her skyshield is a bit better though which is nice, but I feel she hasn't quite fit in her niche snugly yet. She should have a bit of healing capability. I'd be down for something like Killing Floor Medic's healing gun thing, for example.

  • c4Tec4Te Posts: 16Developer

    We are working on her Bionic Pulse and some vfx updates for her.

    Before we release the Bionic Pulse update we would like to test it in the PTS. The signup for that will be available soon.

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 2,288

    @c4Te said:
    We are working on her Bionic Pulse and some vfx updates for her.

    Before we release the Bionic Pulse update we would like to test it in the PTS. The signup for that will be available soon.

    Why cant she heal herself like pheonix?? Even though shes down she could still trigger her glove rolling around and when the dome gets created it heals any one dome.

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • c4Tec4Te Posts: 16Developer

    @Mc1412013 said:
    Why cant she heal herself like pheonix?? Even though shes down she could still trigger her glove rolling around and when the dome gets created it heals any one dome.

    Guardian is supposed to be a really aggressive combat Merc that can support her team with her anti-spam dome and a group revive.

    These abilities combined with her Assault Rifle make her really powerful. We are still in the process of tweaking her to get her in the perfect spot but we think that we are on the right path.

  • I always thought that Guardian's kit didn't really synergize with itself. Her Assault Rifles and High Health Pool (for a medic, anyways), seems to suggest she's a frontliner, like Sawbonez and Phoenix. But the Sky Shield and Bionic Pulse suggest she be played in the backline of the team, like Sparks.
    Just another problem with Guardian I've always thought about.

  • LifeupOmegaLifeupOmega Posts: 2,056

    AR means extra range though Muddy, so it can work. She's not amazing by any means but I've been enjoying her when there's another medic on the team (hoorah for no tough/looter, wonder who okay'd that).

    Reminder that it's always okay to vote kick a sniper, no matter how well they're doing.
  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,326

    @c4Te said:

    @Mc1412013 said:
    Why cant she heal herself like pheonix?? Even though shes down she could still trigger her glove rolling around and when the dome gets created it heals any one dome.

    Guardian is supposed to be a really aggressive combat Merc that can support her team with her anti-spam dome and a group revive.

    These abilities combined with her Assault Rifle make her really powerful. We are still in the process of tweaking her to get her in the perfect spot but we think that we are on the right path.

    i still think the cooldown on revive is not that great

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • Rokon2Rokon2 Posts: 115

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @c4Te said:

    @Mc1412013 said:
    Why cant she heal herself like pheonix?? Even though shes down she could still trigger her glove rolling around and when the dome gets created it heals any one dome.

    Guardian is supposed to be a really aggressive combat Merc that can support her team with her anti-spam dome and a group revive.

    These abilities combined with her Assault Rifle make her really powerful. We are still in the process of tweaking her to get her in the perfect spot but we think that we are on the right path.

    i still think the cooldown on revive is not that great

    I wouldn't mind the cooldown much if I could cancel it, and if it maybe offered a bit more health on revive than others.

  • azz_abdrazz_abdr Posts: 118

    group revive with long cooldown is baaaaddddd, how many times people want to die in same. and remember her hidden achievement to revive 5 teammates on single tap is the most stupid achievement on game, can't be obtained without "cheating" with enemy.

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