What did they do to my FEL-IX :(

frostyvampirefrostyvampire Posts: 1,153
edited November 2017 in Weapon Discussion

Edit: after playing a bit more with both the FEL-IX and MoA I've come to this conclussion:

The MoA has always been superior to the FEL-IX. But now, it's even more superior than before and the FEL-IX became literally trash. 40 RPM is still playable and really good and I think that the headshot damage nerf got it where it has to be. So I think that the MoA is now well balanced (but obviously we won't know for sure until another month or so when people play it more)

Now back to the FEL-IX, it's literally trash now. The increased damage is unnoticeable since it still takes the same amount to kill most mercs. Still 1 headshot kill and then a follow up bodyshot to finish, but at the cost of 30% slower fire rate, slower reload speed and decreased ammo capacity (both in clip and out of it). There's now no reason to ever use the FEL-IX over MoA and if before it didn't matter a lot, now it's obvious that the MoA is way better.

My solutions:

  1. Increase fire rate to 36 RPM (from 32).

  2. Increase ammo to 6/24 (from 5/20).

OR

  1. Make it 1 shot every deployable

  2. Decrease damage to 70 (from 75)

  3. Increase headshot multiplier to 2.9, meaning headshots will do 203 damage. Allowing it to insta-gib mercs with 103hp (or less) and 1 shot Rhino (from 2.3x 172 headshot damage)

I think that both of these changes will make the FEL-IX a lot better and at least make it closer to the FEL-IX. The only problem I see with the first change is that it will make it pretty similar to the MoA which I think the devs wanted to avoid. The 2nd change however will make headshots feel more rewarding. The damage buff we got is not noticeable, but I think that instagibbing 100hp mercs will be very noticeable and make up for the HUGE loss in fire rate.

The MoA will probably always be superior, but at least this won't make the FEL-IX feel left out and useless. I also don't find it OP to instagib 100hp mercs because most mercs have more hp than that and with the new fire rate every shot counts. In the current state, a lot of times you won't have time for the follow up shot to finish the enemy before they are revived, this isn't the case with the MoA.


Original post:

It's soooooooooooo slow now.
If I miss or bodyshot someone I basically have no time to try and shoot another bullet now.

The damage buff didn't do anything, being able to instagib Aura and Sparks is nice but 75 damage over 63 (or whatever it was before) doesn't make up for the slow fire rate and less ammo (5/20 instead of 7/21).

Maybe some people complained about snipers being OP and I don't mind a small nerf, but this is just ridiculous.
If you make it fire so slow, at least make it 1 shot deployables (or at least Aura health stations) and instagib more mercs.

You are still required to hit an enemy twice to kill them:
1 headshot to down and 1 bodyshot to finish or 3 bodyshots (2 to down, 1 to finish)
Rhino still takes 2 headshots or 1 head + 2 bodyshots (head+body down, another body to finish)
Only ones actually affected by it are Aura/Sparks which only need 1 headshot now (but still 3 bodyshots) and Thunder which now gets downed with 1 headshot. But nobody plays Thunder anymore and the instagib on just 2 squishy mercs that already only needed to take 2 damage to be finished just makes the damage buff pointless.
MoA is basically the same except with no upside of increased damage

I can see an upside for Aimee since she can now 1 shot bodyshot all squishies with the debuff, but it's still not worth it. And Vassili can't do that

Please, give it back at least some of the fire rate (40 instead of the old 46 and MoA could get the 46). And if not, then at least buff it more in terms of headshots: make headshots do 200 damage (1 shot Rhino, instagib 100hp) and make it deal 200 damage against all deployables (so it can 1 shot health stations, turrets and etc.)

Why would you nerf the weapons that require skill and buff the auto noob (PDP) that requires no skill.

tl;dr: I'm salty that the FEL-IX got nerfed so hard. I still haven't tried MoA but I assume it has the same problem.

MakeSnipersGreatAgain

(and nerf PDP back)

Post edited by frostyvampire on

Comments

  • GuziolGuziol Posts: 325

    No. @$!# snipers.
    Also i like new fel-ix.

  • LifeupOmegaLifeupOmega Posts: 2,028
    edited November 2017

    Lol snipers got ruined* and it's great.

    Post edited by LifeupOmega on
    Reminder that it's always okay to vote kick a sniper, no matter how well they're doing.
  • @LifeupOmega said:
    Lol snipers got ruined* and it's great.

    My only purpose in Dirty Bomb :cry:

  • KiraysKirays Posts: 1,391Moderator

    I can comprehend your sadness but to be honest snipers were beyond broken and a nerf was long overdue.

  • Edit: I played a bit more with both bolt actions so I updated my post. I'm also less salty now after a bit.

    @Kirays said:
    I can comprehend your sadness but to be honest snipers were beyond broken and a nerf was long overdue.

    I agree that they needed a small nerf but this is way too much. I found out that the MoA got the nerf it deserved and I think it's pretty balanced now.
    But sadly this isn't the case with the FEL-IX. The FEL-IX got an insane fire rate nerf and the increased damage is almost pointless. MoA was better before yes, but now the gap between MoA and FEL-IX is even bigger. The damage buff is barely noticeable and it got a 30% decreased fire rate, while the MoA got only a 20% decreased fire rate.

    Don't forget that FEL-IX also got a longer reload time and less clip size and starting ammo too. MoA has the same ammo as before which is now more than the FEL-IX

  • GuziolGuziol Posts: 325

    My only complaint about fel-ix is the bolt cocking is so slow that i cancel is by accident so many times and have to re-do it. Esspecially painfull when you shoot and switch to your pistol after shooting and your switch back just to get reminded that you did not do it before.

  • Will be interesting to see how this plays out in practice instead of theory. Ive never fired a real sniper rifle but to me it sounds "fair" to increase damage and decrease fire rate. This also helps reduce the cheese or running, fire and keep running and with multiple shots. I think this actually helps average snipers by increasing the body damage to make it more viable to hit with 1 body shot then fallow up with secondary.

  • @CombatMist said:
    Will be interesting to see how this plays out in practice instead of theory. Ive never fired a real sniper rifle but to me it sounds "fair" to increase damage and decrease fire rate. This also helps reduce the cheese or running, fire and keep running and with multiple shots. I think this actually helps average snipers by increasing the body damage to make it more viable to hit with 1 body shot then fallow up with secondary.

    It's fair to decrease fire rate but increase damage, but the problem is that the decreased fire rate is not worth the extra damage.
    It's a 30% decrease in fire rate but only 8% increase in headshot damage and 19% increase in bodyshot damage.

    The bodyshot damage doesn't matter since you should be going for headshots at least 80% of the time. If you only bodyshot then you shouldn't play sniper.
    The extra headshot damage is pretty pointless because it only helps against 3 mercs (Aura/Sparks with the instagib and Thunder with the instakill).

    For 8% damage increase I expect only a max decrease of fire rate by 20%, no more. And don't forget they also lowered the ammo capacity from 7/21 to 5/20.
    If they make it fire so slow, at least make headshots do 200 damage and make it 1 shot deployables (except Turtle shield obviously).

    If not, then they should at least buff the fire rate to 36-37 RPM and give it 6 bullets in a clip (36.8 RPM is 20% decrease from the previous 46 if you want math). But I'm afraid the devs won't do it because it will make it too similar to the MoA (again) so the first change is more likely. It just shouldn't stay the way it is now

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,858
    edited November 2017

    I wonder if snipers are problematic because:

    A- They are long ranged gunners
    B- They are sharpshooters

    I always loved using sharpshooting guns, but I never liked camping back in the corner, always playing aggressively.
    Not sure about the upcoming hunter, but Sparks is a good example of sharpshooting merc, which doesn't have to camp in the back. And there's this damage falloff and all, with her revifle.
    The long range gunning means wider FOV. The cone covers nearly half of the map, and good snipers can pinpoint and secure the area.

    UPDATE:
    Here's a useful schematic, on the hell I'm sayin'.

    Post edited by TheStrangerous on

    RIP DB
    Like TF2, buried under gambling addicts and whales, forgetting the core gameplay.

  • @TheStrangerous said:
    I wonder if snipers are problematic because:

    A- They are long ranged gunners
    B- They are sharpshooters

    I always loved using sharpshooting guns, but I never liked camping back in the corner, always playing aggressively.
    Not sure about the upcoming hunter, but Sparks is a good example of sharpshooting merc, which doesn't have to camp in the back. And there's this damage falloff and all, with her revifle.
    The long range gunning means wider FOV. The cone covers nearly half of the map, and good snipers can pinpoint and secure the area.

    The old snipers didn't have to camp. The fire rate was fast enough for you to be able to play aggressively, which is why I like Aimee more than Vassili.
    But the recent nerf made it impossible to play aggressively with the FEL-IX since if you miss, you are dead. This nerf pretty much made Aimee useless because you can no longer use your fast movement speed for the aggressive playstyle and you are forced to camp.

    You can still do it with Vassili's MoA, but I'm not used to his slow speed :(

  • JJMAJRJJMAJR Posts: 1,104

    Can anyone explain the statistical differences between the FEL-IX and the MOA that would make me want to choose the FEL-IX over it?

  • LifeupOmegaLifeupOmega Posts: 2,028

    @TheStrangerous said:
    I wonder if snipers are problematic because:

    A- They are long ranged gunners
    B- They are sharpshooters

    In a game like DB they flat out upset the design of gun duelling and longer than average ttk, its been their entire issue for the past 4-5 years. Giving mercs the option to one shot people with hitscan, zero cooldown weaponry is pretty boring.

    Reminder that it's always okay to vote kick a sniper, no matter how well they're doing.
  • dusannfsdusannfs Posts: 25
    edited November 2017

    @JJMAJR said:
    Can anyone explain the statistical differences between the FEL-IX and the MOA that would make me want to choose the FEL-IX over it?

    One shots Fragger and Thunder, and instagibs aura and sparks. So yeah, not very helpful really. You could/should just go Vas wih moa, headshot and tap them at the head a few times with minipistol, all that being quicker than a Felix shot/reshot after miss.
    I had made a break from gaming for a while and wasn't really been able to test the updates fully, and while i still can kill with Felix, there just is no point right now. Although the SNITCH throw speed increase is pretty nice I gotta say that. But yeah if you go Felix Vas, that's just going full @$!# now imo.
    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
    Edit: typos

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,417

    @Kirays said:
    I can comprehend your sadness but to be honest snipers were beyond broken and a nerf was long overdue.

    Why not just reduce body damage more and increase headshot multiplier...just keep doing it till bodyshot heroes just aren't rewarding.

    Yet they buffed the PDP...

    What a shock, always the same few people who report me for spam or abuse! Some people are so small and so petty...

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,417

    @JJMAJR said:
    Can anyone explain the statistical differences between the FEL-IX and the MOA that would make me want to choose the FEL-IX over it?

    If you had aimbot like aim you may want to use it because you can headshot everyone except Rhino...other than that can't really see any reason.

    What a shock, always the same few people who report me for spam or abuse! Some people are so small and so petty...

  • @Sorotia said:

    @JJMAJR said:
    Can anyone explain the statistical differences between the FEL-IX and the MOA that would make me want to choose the FEL-IX over it?

    If you had aimbot like aim you may want to use it because you can headshot everyone except Rhino...other than that can't really see any reason.

    Even with headshots only, the MoA is still a better choice.
    Both guns will 1 shot most mercs with a headshot. The FEL-IX can only 1 shot 2 more mercs, Thunder is not very common anymore and Fragger survives with only 2hp, meaning you can easily finish him after the first shot anyways.
    The FEL-IX doesn't let you get a 2nd shot after killing the enemy before they get revived so your headshots are useless next to a medic. This isn't the case with the MoA.
    Since the MoA has a faster fire rate, you can take out multiple opponents faster. Especially in close-mid range.
    The MoA faster fire rate also allows you to go for a second shot faster.

    So the only reason to ever use FEL-IX over MoA is for instagib on Aura and Sparks. Which is just way too basic and unrewarding so why would you ever use it?

    @Sorotia said:

    @Kirays said:
    I can comprehend your sadness but to be honest snipers were beyond broken and a nerf was long overdue.

    Why not just reduce body damage more and increase headshot multiplier...just keep doing it till bodyshot heroes just aren't rewarding.

    Yet they buffed the PDP...

    Agreed on that one. Revert MoA and FEL-IX to their old state
    Decrease bodyshot damage for MoA to 40 and headshot multiplier to 4x (160 damage)
    Decrease bodyshot damage for FEL-IX to 45 and headshot multiplier to 4x (190 damage)
    Decrease PDP damage to 40, headshot will stay at 2x (80 damage). Increase ammo capacity and firing speed to make it a bit more viable (but still not as viable as bolt actions)
    Revert Grandeur changes

  • @frostyvampire said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @JJMAJR said:
    Can anyone explain the statistical differences between the FEL-IX and the MOA that would make me want to choose the FEL-IX over it?

    If you had aimbot like aim you may want to use it because you can headshot everyone except Rhino...other than that can't really see any reason.

    Even with headshots only, the MoA is still a better choice.
    Both guns will 1 shot most mercs with a headshot. The FEL-IX can only 1 shot 2 more mercs, Thunder is not very common anymore and Fragger survives with only 2hp, meaning you can easily finish him after the first shot anyways.
    The FEL-IX doesn't let you get a 2nd shot after killing the enemy before they get revived so your headshots are useless next to a medic. This isn't the case with the MoA.
    Since the MoA has a faster fire rate, you can take out multiple opponents faster. Especially in close-mid range.
    The MoA faster fire rate also allows you to go for a second shot faster.

    So the only reason to ever use FEL-IX over MoA is for instagib on Aura and Sparks. Which is just way too basic and unrewarding so why would you ever use it?

    @Sorotia said:

    @Kirays said:
    I can comprehend your sadness but to be honest snipers were beyond broken and a nerf was long overdue.

    Why not just reduce body damage more and increase headshot multiplier...just keep doing it till bodyshot heroes just aren't rewarding.

    Yet they buffed the PDP...

    Agreed on that one. Revert MoA and FEL-IX to their old state
    Decrease bodyshot damage for MoA to 40 and headshot multiplier to 4x (160 damage)
    Decrease bodyshot damage for FEL-IX to 45 and headshot multiplier to 4x (190 damage)
    Decrease PDP damage to 40, headshot will stay at 2x (80 damage). Increase ammo capacity and firing speed to make it a bit more viable (but still not as viable as bolt actions)
    Revert Grandeur changes

    i thought we agreed that instagibs are not fun.

    核P-MODEL-白く巨大で
                                                                    
  • @GatoCommodore
    Maybe random insta gibs are not fun.

    But when it's from a weapon that requires a lot of skill and has insane punishments for missing (like FEL-IX), or when it's from a long cooldown ability (Kira's laser, Skyhammer's airstrike, Fragger's grenades etc.) then there is really no problem with it

  • @frostyvampire said:
    @GatoCommodore
    Maybe random insta gibs are not fun.

    But when it's from a weapon that requires a lot of skill and has insane punishments for missing (like FEL-IX), or when it's from a long cooldown ability (Kira's laser, Skyhammer's airstrike, Fragger's grenades etc.) then there is really no problem with it

    i'd really like MoA stay and Vasilli HP reduced to 100
    currently im pretty okay with the Fel-IX dmg ability to instagib and i agree the RPM nerf is too harsh for Fel-IX

    at least if they want to pull that stunt on Fel-IX, reduce the amount of vertical recoil post-shot with it. I think putting crosshair on target is more important than RPM.

    核P-MODEL-白く巨大で
                                                                    
  • @GatoCommodore said:

    @frostyvampire said:
    @GatoCommodore
    Maybe random insta gibs are not fun.

    But when it's from a weapon that requires a lot of skill and has insane punishments for missing (like FEL-IX), or when it's from a long cooldown ability (Kira's laser, Skyhammer's airstrike, Fragger's grenades etc.) then there is really no problem with it

    i'd really like MoA stay and Vasilli HP reduced to 100
    currently im pretty okay with the Fel-IX dmg ability to instagib and i agree the RPM nerf is too harsh for Fel-IX

    at least if they want to pull that stunt on Fel-IX, reduce the amount of vertical recoil post-shot with it. I think putting crosshair on target is more important than RPM.

    Tbh the recoil in bolt action snipers in video games doesn't matter.
    By the time you can fire again you already got your crosshair back where it has to be, so even if it had 0 recoil it wouldn't matter and you won't even notice it. By the time you can fire again, even with the old 50 RPM MoA, your crosshair should already be on the enemy (or at least very close to the enemy). I actually prefer snipers having high recoil because it makes my shots feel strong and headshots rewarding, but that's just me

    Thew new MoA is fine, but the FEL-IX got nerfed into trash tier (and so did Aimee because that's the only viable weapon she has left after the Grandeur got destroyed too).

    The damage buff is nice, but MoA has a 25% faster fire rate and the damage difference between them barely matters since it only affects 2 mercs (the insta-gib is only on the 2 squishiest mercs in the game and gibbing enemies as a sniper only takes 1 bullet so it doesn't matter).
    In theory it also affects Rhino (headshot + bodyshot from MoA = 198 damage) but in reality, how often will you see a full hp Rhino and be the only one shooting him?

    Also I can argue that if Fragger or Rhino survive with 2hp, it's basically the same as killing them in 95% of the cases because hitting 1 bullet with a machine pistol is just impossible to fail at (at any range) and weapon switching in this game happens before the enemy can fall back. So the 2hp they have left will only affect you if the enemy peeked a corner or if you have 10hp and got pushed

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 926

    On the other side of the coin

    I find MOA completely useless trash with its nerf and the FE-LIX is the only usable sniper rifle.

    It's all fun and games until you fall apart every time because you can't kill Fraggers. Fragger is a staple heavy assault class that has to be killed by a single headshot. If you can't plink down a Fragger for your team, you just get rekt

    It also has the added bonus of killing Thunders for free.

    That Fragger that would've been dead now has the 2 hp he needs to finish cooking and tossing his nade. Grats, you just watched your medic, assault, and engi get popped by a nade because you don't get to kill Fraggers anymore.

  • @bgyoshi said:
    On the other side of the coin

    I find MOA completely useless trash with its nerf and the FE-LIX is the only usable sniper rifle.

    It's all fun and games until you fall apart every time because you can't kill Fraggers. Fragger is a staple heavy assault class that has to be killed by a single headshot. If you can't plink down a Fragger for your team, you just get rekt

    It also has the added bonus of killing Thunders for free.

    That Fragger that would've been dead now has the 2 hp he needs to finish cooking and tossing his nade. Grats, you just watched your medic, assault, and engi get popped by a nade because you don't get to kill Fraggers anymore.

    But you forgot that Fragger needs to have full health from the start to survive it. And to hit him again (if he does survive) takes less than half a second even if it's long range.

    With the FEL-IX you can kill him, but he is already back on his feet by the time you are able to shoot him again to finish him. Not to mention that if you miss or bodyshoot him, you pretty much failed already, with the MoA you get another shot before it's too late.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 926
    edited November 2017

    @frostyvampire said:
    But you forgot that Fragger needs to have full health from the start to survive it. And to hit him again (if he does survive) takes less than half a second even if it's long range.

    With the FEL-IX you can kill him, but he is already back on his feet by the time you are able to shoot him again to finish him. Not to mention that if you miss or bodyshoot him, you pretty much failed already, with the MoA you get another shot before it's too late.

    MoA ROF is 1.2 seconds between shots so.. no, you don't really get another chance if you don't kill him the first time. And I dunno about you, most if not all Fraggers I see when sniping are at full health, or at least over 138 HP.

    And you shouldn't be shooting alone in the first place, all you need to do is incap him and the team should be right there to finish him off for you. And if for some reason he DOESN'T have full health, then it's likely he'll be autogibbed on headshot by the FEL-IX anyway.

  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 119

    btw
    The thing got buffed again so I assume you are going to use it again like nothing has happened if I know Snipermains correctly

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 926

    @Da_Mummy said:
    btw
    The thing got buffed again so I assume you are going to use it again like nothing has happened if I know Snipermains correctly

    "Buffed"

    I dunno if +1 ammo is a buff lmfao

  • frostyvampirefrostyvampire Posts: 1,153
    edited December 2017

    @Da_Mummy said:
    btw
    The thing got buffed again so I assume you are going to use it again like nothing has happened if I know Snipermains correctly

    Just tried it out. While the buff is good and well needed, I still feel like they could buff the fire rate a bit more to maybe 36 RPM. But overall the FEL-IX is at least viable again. The MoA is still superior but not like it was before.

    The new animation looks a bit wonky, but I'll probably get used to it so meh.

    Sadly the buff also introduced a bug where you can't weapon switch for about half a second. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

    I will start playing Aimee again, but I might end up being salty and switch to MoA Vassili because of that bug : 3

    @bgyoshi said:

    @Da_Mummy said:
    btw
    The thing got buffed again so I assume you are going to use it again like nothing has happened if I know Snipermains correctly

    "Buffed"

    I dunno if +1 ammo is a buff lmfao

    The +1 ammo is a 20% increased magazine size which is pretty big. I can definitely say I notice that 1 extra bullet.

    They also increased the RPM to 34 (+2 increase), they could probably do a bit more and make it 36 but at least you have enough time to finish the target now.

    Edit: Nope, the weapon switching glitch makes FEL-IX unusable. I'll just wait for it to get fixed

    Post edited by frostyvampire on
  • GuziolGuziol Posts: 325

    I like the buff but yea, now it's just so goddamn clunky with weapon switching being delayed so long. Too often i need that few selbstadt shots hitting someone.

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