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Sit down...let's talk about Javelin...and some other mercs

Javelin:

So I want to start this off by saying to the people that think Javelin is overpowered still. That isn't true. However, I would like to say that she is rather cheap and sometimes bugs can make her overpowered for example when a charge up sound isn't as loud as it should be. I hope that these changes should make her more skill dependant, more rewarding for having that skill and basically nerfing her potential to win in 1v1 fights. So let's jump right into it

1 ) The rocket's explosion should not be blocked by people, equipment or any other object with
collision except for walls. the rocket should still blow up on direct contact with these items

reason: it's just annoying to be honest. If there is no reason to keep it, why would you keep it?

2 ) rocket should have a 2X multiplier to objectives and equipment (1-shots turtle's shield and 2-shots
the ev on direct hit)

reason: well the rocket just should 1 shot Turtle's shield with steady. It makes sense and it is
annoying to have to empty half a mag into the shield after using a rocket on it. When it comes to the
ev, the rocket feels useless against it at the moment. It should 2 shot the ev considering all fire
support abilities do except for her

3 ) buff the axe to do 55 damage on the left click (2-shots 120 hp mercs when you have chopper and
2-shots 110 hp mercs with out chopper)

reason: well the kukri and bat do it so why not the axe? again just makes sense. It just feels weird to
use knowing that it won't do anything against mercs with any kind of health pool

4 ) Remove the 1 second delay between people entering the ammo generator's area of effect and them
receiving the first tick of ammo.

reason: she can feel odd when you have to stand still to give people ammo and take 5 or 6 seconds
just acting as an ammo station because they can't keep up with you.

5 ) Give Javelin the spares augment by default.

reason: she doesn't give herself enough ammo. It feels wrong to be able to run out of ammo as a fire
support.

6 ) This one is complicated so if you stop understanding anything, just skip ahead and ignore.
added inner radius to the rocket. this part of the explosion has a 1 metre area of effect (1.1 with bigger blasts)
and in this area, 300 damage will be received by anyone inside it's area of effect. no drop off. If you are within 1m of the rocket you WILL take full damage unless you have unshakeable or guardian angel. This means that Fragger will have to use unshakeable to avoid instagib But Thunder and Rhino are safe unless direct hit. next an added medium radius which lasts from 1 metre (1.1 with bigger blasts) until 4.25 metres. In this area of effect, 200 damage will be received by anyone within the area of effect. no drop off just like the inner radius. The damage will drop off from 200 to 0 between 4.25 and 4.75m metres which is the outer radius

reason: more consistency for damage on the rocket.

7 ) Increased charge up audio (make it louder specifically through 1 wall but after 2 walls should be barely audible)

reason: just to be able to find cover a li' bit easier

8 ) Increase the time it takes to pull out the rocket launcher to around half a second or two thirds of a second but increase movement speed when you have the rocket launcher equipped to 92.5%

reason: stop Javelin's effectiveness in 1v1 duels

9 ) for the first 5 metres of flight, reduce damage to be 120 and 110 on splash on the inner and medium radius respectively and 150 on direct hit. If she get's killed by her own rocket, Javelin will have a 40 second cool down

10 ) Javelin has a 3X damage multiplier from her own rockets

reason: she gets killed by nearby rockets of her own and can't just shake them off and survive.

Thunder:

So all I want to do with these changes is make Thunder less annoying to play against and to play as.

1 ) Removed slow effect of the concussion grenade

reason: just an annoyance and it really just makes me around McDonald's chips levels of salty when I die to it

2 ) added option for a black blind instead of white

reason: players aren't blinded in real life

4 ) blinded players are spotted but only to Thunder and not through walls.

reason: it can be hard to know who is and who is not blind. This should help Thunder pick his targets better.

5 ) Reduced cool down of the concussion grenade to 14 seconds

reason: it would be under powered if it was just a blind on a 17 second cool down

Proxy:

put simply pizza delivery is kinda bs.

1 ) reduced aoe by 35% if proxy shoots her mines

2 ) Increased animation time to throw a mine by 50%

Phantom:

1 ) audio should be non-directional. Once you are within 10m of a cloaked Phantom, you should get an audio cue to let you know this. This shouldn't tell you his exact location but should tell you to keep an eye out for a Phantom.

2 ) being spotted by a Hunter or Redeye should de-cloak him

3 ) taking 1 damage, should use up 0.1s of the cloak but not shield Phantom from the damage

4 ) If a player uses their sights while using the pdp, moa, felix or crossbow, Phantom should be totally invisible unless it's a redeye with his ir goggles turned on.

5 ) If Phantom stays still or crouch walks, he should be less visible. Walking should be his current level of visibility and sprinting should make him very obvious with lots of glimmer on his cloak.

6 ) If Phantom is 15m or more away from you, he should be totally invisible.

7 ) the cloak should have a 12s cool down with a 3s base cool down for activating it and staying still should use 0.5s of cool down per second. Crouch walking should use 0.75s of cool down per second. Walking should use 1s of cool down per second. and sprinting/Jumping should use 1.5s of cool down per second.

Comments

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    Tbh many of those javelin changes i would like, however i dont approve of the +10seconds when suicide. You already lose exp, and your life, its fine. Other than that, i approvee

    Thunder - I think cooldown to 16 is just fine, and everything else, i approve once again

    Proxy - im fine with that extra 50% extra throw time, they should be used as defense, idk about the minus aoe tho

    Phantom -

    1 - Yupppppp, i even said this too in my idea of phantom
    2 - Hunter only
    3 - Please dont keep nerfing him
    4 - why?
    5 - YES, except the sprint should only be a bit shinier than walk
    6 - YES
    7 - Id like to try out that system tbh

  • noonenewnoonenew Posts: 4

    Right, thanks for your reply. I really apreciate it. I'll hop right into my response right here. Right now. The reason for the extra cooldown was to add insentive to to just be in your face but I see how changes 9,8 and somewhat 7 could resove this by themselves but I do think it would be just that bit extra of a reason (even if it was just an extra 5 seconds instead of 10). However, I want to sate again that I see your point and to be honest agree that it would be a bit much. Yeah It was a typo I meant to put 15 seconds but 16 would only be 1 less seconds and after the 2% hitbox reduction and 1.2% speed increase meme, I want it to be meaningfull and I think 15 seconds would be meaningfull when you consider I am suggesting removing half of the idea of the concussio grenade. However, they could test this in the new testing system mentioned in the last update and come to think of it, they could do the same for the increased suicide rocket cooldown. Again when it comes to Proxy, I see what you mean but I just hate the hell out of pizza delivery. It's bullshit. It's more effective in most cases and just less skillful than a nade or rocket so the aoe reduce would be only when the mine is shot. I really couldn't care less if they made it so that Proxy shooting her own mines didn't do anything and therefore removing pizza delivery or as some people call it: pancaking. Now when it came to Phantom changes I was just listing ideas for change 3 it is just flat out damn annoying when a Phantom cloaks and he escapes after you drill him in the head for 5 bullets and he escapes with 1 hp so I hoped that might stop that so they could again test this in the new format they mentioned in the latest dev video. And 4 was to just stop how much snipers counter him by being able to see him clear as day. As for change 5 I think sprinting as Phantom should really @$!# him over. It should be a really dumb idea when cloaked but I guess 7 would do an adequate job of doing so. Again thanks for the response and let me know what you think now I have posted my reasons but most of them I think we agree should be given the "go-ahead" if you will

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @noonenew said:
    Right, thanks for your reply. I really apreciate it. I'll hop right into my response right here. Right now. The reason for the extra cooldown was to add insentive to to just be in your face but I see how changes 9,8 and somewhat 7 could resove this by themselves but I do think it would be just that bit extra of a reason (even if it was just an extra 5 seconds instead of 10). However, I want to sate again that I see your point and to be honest agree that it would be a bit much. Yeah It was a typo I meant to put 15 seconds but 16 would only be 1 less seconds and after the 2% hitbox reduction and 1.2% speed increase meme, I want it to be meaningfull and I think 15 seconds would be meaningfull when you consider I am suggesting removing half of the idea of the concussio grenade. However, they could test this in the new testing system mentioned in the last update and come to think of it, they could do the same for the increased suicide rocket cooldown. Again when it comes to Proxy, I see what you mean but I just hate the hell out of pizza delivery. It's bullshit. It's more effective in most cases and just less skillful than a nade or rocket so the aoe reduce would be only when the mine is shot. I really couldn't care less if they made it so that Proxy shooting her own mines didn't do anything and therefore removing pizza delivery or as some people call it: pancaking. Now when it came to Phantom changes I was just listing ideas for change 3 it is just flat out damn annoying when a Phantom cloaks and he escapes after you drill him in the head for 5 bullets and he escapes with 1 hp so I hoped that might stop that so they could again test this in the new format they mentioned in the latest dev video. And 4 was to just stop how much snipers counter him by being able to see him clear as day. As for change 5 I think sprinting as Phantom should really @$!# him over. It should be a really dumb idea when cloaked but I guess 7 would do an adequate job of doing so. Again thanks for the response and let me know what you think now I have posted my reasons but most of them I think we agree should be given the "go-ahead" if you will

    Now that i think about it, ig it would make sense for aoe to be reduced on mine, not just for proxy but when any merc shoots it. It will also reduce the annoyance of neutralizing a mine that is around a corner you can't pass or see.

    On that thunder typo, yeah i could agree with 15 seconds tbh.

    On that phantom, tbh hes really iffy and UP atm. Yeah they should make him more challenging, but at the same time better.

  • noonenewnoonenew Posts: 4

    I agree with what you said about Phantom. However, idk how to do that. Infact that's the reason that I stated no directional audio and the whole less movement less visibility idea. I just thought that it would make him a great human landmine and just good at being an ambush type character. There is two ways they can go with Phantom and I prefer the second way I state but I know It's a less popular idea. The first way is to make his cloak an ambush tool and just great at killing people before they know that they're in a fight. However, the second and my personal preferred method to fix Phantom would be making him the flank god basically. This would involve making him totally invisible and silent as well as giving him a short de-cloak time. This would be great at getting past the enemy and setting up a cross fire with your team from behind enemy lines. I think that as long as they make the de-cloak animation the same one that Phantom has when he enters cloak which lasts around half a second, he would be balanced if he was invisible and silent. I would also like to see him have his emp be totally separate from his cloak and even have it as a grenade like Thunder used to work. That would mean he wouldn't have to risk his life by getting up close to disable an Aura station for example. the only problem that I see there is using his cloak when escaping. Maybe don't let him activate it if he has taken damage in the past second or so.

    Basically what I'm saying is that Phantom's cloak shouldn't be a go invisible and get a free kill with a stab to the face. If they do it like that, Phantom could never be balanced. He would always be overpowered or underpowered. If they made it the best way to flank, he would be fun and feel balanced when you play him and wouldn't be as annoying to play against. However, they should test both of the methods in the beta or alternate test version of the game that they mentioned in the last update.

    Idea 1) (not gunna lie possibly the one I don't like as much)

    1)
    audio should be non-directional. Once you are within 10m of a cloaked Phantom, you should get an audio cue to let you know this. This shouldn't tell you his exact location but should tell you to keep an eye out for a Phantom.

    2)
    If Phantom stays still or crouch walks, he should be less visible. Walking should be his current level of visibility and sprinting should make him obvious with a decent amount of glimmer on his cloak.

    3)
    If Phantom is 15m or more away from you, he should be totally invisible.

    4)
    more movement uses more of the cloaks energy

    Idea 2) (my preferred method)

    1)
    Phantom is no longer visible to anyone. The only times he can be seen is when he is not cloaked by choice or when a redeye has his ir goggles activated

    2)
    Phantom generates no noise while cloaked neither footsteps or any warp type noises from the cloak

    3)
    Short de-cloak animation the same one he has the end of the cloak. (the same one he has at the start of the cloak but slowed down to be 0.5s long). basically has a 0.5s delay between de-cloaking and being able to shoot or stab

    ideas consistent throughout both ideas:

    1) make his emp a grenade like Thunder's old concussion grenade did but without the blind or stun effect.

    let me know of any objections to this and we can have a chat and change this list if you change my mind

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @noonenew said:
    I agree with what you said about Phantom. However, idk how to do that. Infact that's the reason that I stated no directional audio and the whole less movement less visibility idea. I just thought that it would make him a great human landmine and just good at being an ambush type character. There is two ways they can go with Phantom and I prefer the second way I state but I know It's a less popular idea. The first way is to make his cloak an ambush tool and just great at killing people before they know that they're in a fight. However, the second and my personal preferred method to fix Phantom would be making him the flank god basically. This would involve making him totally invisible and silent as well as giving him a short de-cloak time. This would be great at getting past the enemy and setting up a cross fire with your team from behind enemy lines. I think that as long as they make the de-cloak animation the same one that Phantom has when he enters cloak which lasts around half a second, he would be balanced if he was invisible and silent. I would also like to see him have his emp be totally separate from his cloak and even have it as a grenade like Thunder used to work. That would mean he wouldn't have to risk his life by getting up close to disable an Aura station for example. the only problem that I see there is using his cloak when escaping. Maybe don't let him activate it if he has taken damage in the past second or so.

    Basically what I'm saying is that Phantom's cloak shouldn't be a go invisible and get a free kill with a stab to the face. If they do it like that, Phantom could never be balanced. He would always be overpowered or underpowered. If they made it the best way to flank, he would be fun and feel balanced when you play him and wouldn't be as annoying to play against. However, they should test both of the methods in the beta or alternate test version of the game that they mentioned in the last update.

    Idea 1) (not gunna lie possibly the one I don't like as much)

    1)
    audio should be non-directional. Once you are within 10m of a cloaked Phantom, you should get an audio cue to let you know this. This shouldn't tell you his exact location but should tell you to keep an eye out for a Phantom.

    2)
    If Phantom stays still or crouch walks, he should be less visible. Walking should be his current level of visibility and sprinting should make him obvious with a decent amount of glimmer on his cloak.

    3)
    If Phantom is 15m or more away from you, he should be totally invisible.

    4)
    more movement uses more of the cloaks energy

    Idea 2) (my preferred method)

    1)
    Phantom is no longer visible to anyone. The only times he can be seen is when he is not cloaked by choice or when a redeye has his ir goggles activated

    2)
    Phantom generates no noise while cloaked neither footsteps or any warp type noises from the cloak

    3)
    Short de-cloak animation the same one he has the end of the cloak. (the same one he has at the start of the cloak but slowed down to be 0.5s long). basically has a 0.5s delay between de-cloaking and being able to shoot or stab

    ideas consistent throughout both ideas:

    1) make his emp a grenade like Thunder's old concussion grenade did but without the blind or stun effect.

    let me know of any objections to this and we can have a chat and change this list if you change my mind

    Yeah the only part i like about idea one is 15m away hes 100% invisible. Its BS you can be see from any range, its snipe fuel. I don't like the emp idea either, phantom is a walk in and disrupt kind of merc, so a nade wouldnt make sense.

    I think phantom should be spottable when cloaked but heres the conditions

    • Vasilis heartbeat sensor skips a heartbeat every other beat (aka bupbupbup -> bup bup)
    • Aimee's spot can only spot when uncloaked, but stays spotting while cloaked until duration ends
    • Redeye should be able to spot no matter what with IR goggles
    • Hunter can spot no matter what with crossbow (maybe even decloak)

    Also, I agree a delay would be nice, but only like .25 seconds so you can still play shark

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