Planned Forum Maintenance - 24th May 2018

We will be doing maintenance on 24th May 2018. The forums will be read-only until the maintenance is finished.

When will Fagger get fixed?

HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326
edited April 18 in Mercenary Discussion

As the most useless assault, id pick nader, thunder, even rhino over him, ANY DAY.

@$!# Grenade - Cant Kill/Destroy -

Bushwhacker turrets
Stokers
Immobile Rhinos
Anything worth while
Every Merc in the game

Frag's Health -

Lower than his K/D now
Makes picking Nader basically a direct upgrade

How we could fix him :)

A - Increase BR by a bit (id say 10%)

B - Increase health back to 140

C - Increase frag damage (cuz it sucks)

D - Make him actually useful

Tbh i get that hes trying to be split from thunder, but thunder should be fixed, fragger shouldn't be broken for people to use him. SD, if you're reading this, stop deterring people from a merc and start making the unused merc attractive ;/

Post edited by HadronZodiac on
«1

Comments

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,386

    @Kirays said:
    First of all, I don't know why but I was not given a notification that someone has tagged me.

    In terms of profanity I have come to the conclusion that it's not over the line yet, being a little bit more cautious with the usage of it is appreciated, however. :)

    Now going back to the original topic of this thread. I certainly don't declare Fragger as trash tier, he is nowhere even close to that though the HP nerf was not necessary nor warranted in my opinion. I guess the idea was to give players more incentives to use Thunder so that he isn't left in the dust but nerfing his counterpart is the wrong approach to it if you ask me.

    they should have buffed thunder MK46

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 2,344

    @Kirays said:

    Now going back to the original topic of this thread. I certainly don't declare Fragger as trash tier, he is nowhere even close to that though the HP nerf was not necessary nor warranted in my opinion. I guess the idea was to give players more incentives to use Thunder so that he isn't left in the dust but nerfing his counterpart is the wrong approach to it if you ask me.

    I figured it was to make Fragger more different than Thunder.

    MakeMachinePistolsGoodAgain

  • -OCB-Wildcard-OCB-Wildcard Posts: 295
    edited April 17

    @Lord_Coctus said:

    @Kirays said:

    Now going back to the original topic of this thread. I certainly don't declare Fragger as trash tier, he is nowhere even close to that though the HP nerf was not necessary nor warranted in my opinion. I guess the idea was to give players more incentives to use Thunder so that he isn't left in the dust but nerfing his counterpart is the wrong approach to it if you ask me.

    I figured it was to make Fragger more different than Thunder.

    In retrospect it probably was partially for that reason but it was an unnecessary change that ultimately didn't do anything to achieve that; they took 10 health from him when he had 150 and gave it to Thunder, now they took 10 Health from Fragger and gave them both a minor speed buff which is almost unnoticeable. That 10 Health didn't go to anything it just disappeared into the realm of nebulous values and had a greater impact on the T.T.K. of the various Primary Weapons than anything. For the sake of reference, here are the T.T.K. Values at Fragger's various HP totals:

    Bodyshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 150 HP
    1.000-1.280 seconds
    Headshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 150 HP
    0.400-0.640 seconds

    Bodyshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 140 HP
    0.981-1.200 seconds.
    Head-shot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 140 HP
    0.400-0.560 seconds

    Bodyshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 130 HP
    0.882-1.120 seconds
    Head-shot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 130 HP
    0.400-0.560 seconds

    You'll notice a slight trend here in that the repeated nerfs to HP lowered the emphasis on good aim and tracking to take down a given Merc, in this case Fragger got closer and closer to a 1.000 second T.T.K. on Bodyshots alone. This makes killing someone playing the Merc easier to kill, most notably outside of high tier gameplay where majority of shots will be Headshots whenever possible, giving a general vibe that this is geared towards improving the "casual player" experience as opposed to an actual balance-related change. So in the end, Splash Damage can put up whatever reason they want but the end result is still the same. What they did serve no purpose outside of watering down the aim requirements in the Pub scene, regardless of their intent the results speak for themselves, and thus have dumbed down part of the core gameplay of Dirty Bomb with the approach they took.

  • kopyrightkopyright Posts: 598

    If you cannot kill any merc with a Fragger nade, it's clearly not Fragger's fault.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326
    edited April 18

    @-OCB-Wildcard said:

    @HadronZodiac said:
    As the most useless assault, id pick nader, thunder, even rhino over him, ANY DAY.

    @$!# Grenade - Cant Kill/Destroy -

    Bushwhacker turrets
    Stokers
    Immobile Rhinos
    Anything worth while
    Every Merc in the game

    @$!#'s Health -

    Lower than his K/D now
    Makes picking Nader basically a direct upgrade

    How we could fix him :)

    A - Increase BR by a bit (id say 10%)

    B - Increase health back to 140

    C - Increase frag damage (cuz it sucks)

    D - Make him actually useful

    Um... you clearly just need to improve with him because I can kill bushwhackers turrets and deployables with one well placed Frag Grenade, without Explodydendron, just fine on his K51 Loadout Card; I also still get 2-3 people per grenade fairly frequently and consistently manage to get a kill with each grenade, assuming it isn't being expended specifically for deployables at the time as I'm not aiming to land it properly near the players in that instance. I still get anywhere from 3-4+ K.D.R. on Fragger, with the bare minimum being a K.D.R. of 2, consistently as well. He's a Merc who relies heavily on good aim and tracking, as well as proper usage and cooking of his Ability, to be successful; he is far from useless and his Frag Grenade still does good damage as it has never been nerfed to my recollection, at most he used to have 2 of them but that is besides the point.

    On the topic of his Ability, even with only one (1) Frag Grenade now, it still does 170 damage, without Unshakable, over an area; it is still dealing 145 damage with Unshakable. In either case that is still a large chunk of the Health of the only two Mercs with HP higher than that (Rhino and Thunder) gone from one ability, and the remainder is easily gunned down after the fact; with the M4A1 and K-121 only taking two (2) headshots to finish off Rhino's remaining HP, and only one (1) headshot to finish off Thunder's remaining 15 HP. Even with an Aura station present it is not complicated to finish off their remaining HP at that point as they have the largest hitboxes and lowest movement speeds of any Merc in the game; if you are missing shots on them it's not the Merc who needs work it's your own aim.

    This is, overall, more of a personal issue of yours than an actual problem with the Merc itself; he is still viable, and among the top killers in the game, with the right person behind the controls and proper game-sense. Now I don't usually take issue with individuals on this forum, but you've been here barely a month, all the while behaving with an arrogance and clear lack of understanding that puts myself and others off; you are still in no position to be making such grand sweeping statements about the game, you're still a newbie compared to most of the long-standing players who actually understand the game. This forum has rules about the overuse of profanity in a post which you've been skirting the limits of, from my perspective (@Eox, @Kirays if you can weigh in here I'd appreciate it). So I advise you to calm down and get yourself together because you are merely digging yourself a hole here.

    If i played him for 2 years and did amazing, its probs not my skill :)

    also, overuse of profanity? I used 2, not to be rude but i'm guessing you're young and you've been taught profanity is evil, (im serious).

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @Kirays said:
    First of all, I don't know why but I was not given a notification that someone has tagged me.

    In terms of profanity I have come to the conclusion that it's not over the line yet, being a little bit more cautious with the usage of it is appreciated, however. :)

    Now going back to the original topic of this thread. I certainly don't declare Fragger as trash tier, he is nowhere even close to that though the HP nerf was not necessary nor warranted in my opinion. I guess the idea was to give players more incentives to use Thunder so that he isn't left in the dust but nerfing his counterpart is the wrong approach to it if you ask me.

    I agree, if thunder got a quick emp back he would be equal to fragger, he didnt need to be hit this hard. I admit he was a bit op at first, and i fully support the increase in cooldown and kinda the -10 hp, but the damage and blast seemed to be brought down too hard.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Kirays said:
    First of all, I don't know why but I was not given a notification that someone has tagged me.

    In terms of profanity I have come to the conclusion that it's not over the line yet, being a little bit more cautious with the usage of it is appreciated, however. :)

    Now going back to the original topic of this thread. I certainly don't declare Fragger as trash tier, he is nowhere even close to that though the HP nerf was not necessary nor warranted in my opinion. I guess the idea was to give players more incentives to use Thunder so that he isn't left in the dust but nerfing his counterpart is the wrong approach to it if you ask me.

    they should have buffed thunder MK46

    Tbh i can agree, even +1 damage could make it fun to use and rewarding, but it just feels like a bottomless hochfir.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @Lord_Coctus said:

    @Kirays said:

    Now going back to the original topic of this thread. I certainly don't declare Fragger as trash tier, he is nowhere even close to that though the HP nerf was not necessary nor warranted in my opinion. I guess the idea was to give players more incentives to use Thunder so that he isn't left in the dust but nerfing his counterpart is the wrong approach to it if you ask me.

    I figured it was to make Fragger more different than Thunder.

    Tbh yeah i agree with that thought process, but i feel thunder could have been fixed, instead of breaking fragger so people use thunder ;/

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @-OCB-Wildcard said:

    @Lord_Coctus said:

    @Kirays said:

    Now going back to the original topic of this thread. I certainly don't declare Fragger as trash tier, he is nowhere even close to that though the HP nerf was not necessary nor warranted in my opinion. I guess the idea was to give players more incentives to use Thunder so that he isn't left in the dust but nerfing his counterpart is the wrong approach to it if you ask me.

    I figured it was to make Fragger more different than Thunder.

    In retrospect it probably was partially for that reason but it was an unnecessary change that ultimately didn't do anything to achieve that; they took 10 health from him when he had 150 and gave it to Thunder, now they took 10 Health from Fragger and gave them both a minor speed buff which is almost unnoticeable. That 10 Health didn't go to anything it just disappeared into the realm of nebulous values and had a greater impact on the T.T.K. of the various Primary Weapons than anything. For the sake of reference, here are the T.T.K. Values at Fragger's various HP totals:

    Bodyshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 150 HP
    1.000-1.280 seconds
    Headshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 150 HP
    0.400-0.640 seconds

    Bodyshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 140 HP
    0.981-1.200 seconds.
    Head-shot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 140 HP
    0.400-0.560 seconds

    Bodyshot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 130 HP
    0.882-1.120 seconds
    Head-shot T.T.K. of Primary Weapons at 130 HP
    0.400-0.560 seconds

    You'll notice a slight trend here in that the repeated nerfs to HP lowered the emphasis on good aim and tracking to take down a given Merc, in this case Fragger got closer and closer to a 1.000 second T.T.K. on Bodyshots alone. This makes killing someone playing the Merc easier to kill, most notably outside of high tier gameplay where majority of shots will be Headshots whenever possible, giving a general vibe that this is geared towards improving the "casual player" experience as opposed to an actual balance-related change. So in the end, Splash Damage can put up whatever reason they want but the end result is still the same. What they did serve no purpose outside of watering down the aim requirements in the Pub scene, regardless of their intent the results speak for themselves, and thus have dumbed down part of the core gameplay of Dirty Bomb with the approach they took.

    Insightful, and agreeable. Now i admit my post was a lil fheuifheuifh but ive just been so annoyed with how heavily affected he his for no reason, a slight +3 seconds to his cooldown isnt a bother, making people see that thunders concuss more useful (as he has more compared to frag bombs), but i think thunder's nade should have a slight emp back. Obviously SD is trying to give recons emp, to make them more useful, but the chances of a hunter or phantom emp-ing the area u wanna concuss just in time is rather 0. Since you cant, your basically trying to kill multiple people on an aura station taking in more hp than losing it.

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,538

    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 439

    Is it bad that I chuckled at "Fagger"?

  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 2,344

    I also missed to mention above is that by lowering his health hes less able to tank damage while cooking his grenade especially at close range for cheap 1 v 1 kills.

    MakeMachinePistolsGoodAgain

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 1,208

    Fragger is an absolute beast but finally balanced

    His grenade is insane lmao

    The 130HP is a necessity. Anything higher is too much for Fragger

    And yes Nader is a direct upgrade because Nader is OP as @$!#, not because Fragger is weak

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @Lord_Coctus said:
    I also missed to mention above is that by lowering his health hes less able to tank damage while cooking his grenade especially at close range for cheap 1 v 1 kills.

    I dont really know people who cook in the open ;/

    So hes basically just worse at 1v1

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @bgyoshi said:
    Fragger is an absolute beast but finally balanced

    His grenade is insane lmao

    The 130HP is a necessity. Anything higher is too much for Fragger

    And yes Nader is a direct upgrade because Nader is OP as @$!#, not because Fragger is weak

    Nader isnt op, fragger just sucks

    Frag nade didnt need this large of a nerf, an extra 3 seconds, -50 damage and -.5 meter br was fine, but they chose +3 seconds, - 50000 damage, negative blast radius

  • kopyrightkopyright Posts: 598

    @HadronZodiac said:
    Frag nade didnt need this large of a nerf, an extra 3 seconds, -50 damage and -.5 meter br was fine, but they chose +3 seconds, - 50000 damage, negative blast radius

    Well, there goes any point trying to discuss with you.

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,538

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

    You heard it hear ladies and gentleman, because one person sees more of this in that in pugs means it's a fact!

    But don't pay attention to ranked/tournaments where people actually play what is good instead of fun!

    Pubs love Proxy....but you never see her in competitive...but no...that can't be possible because I imagine you see a lot of Proxy in pubs! You know...meaningless games?

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @kopyright said:

    @HadronZodiac said:
    Frag nade didnt need this large of a nerf, an extra 3 seconds, -50 damage and -.5 meter br was fine, but they chose +3 seconds, - 50000 damage, negative blast radius

    Well, there goes any point trying to discuss with you.

    Tbh a little bit, ik im a bit stubborn lol, but still he didnt need to be hit that hard.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @Sorotia said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

    You heard it hear ladies and gentleman, because one person sees more of this in that in pugs means it's a fact!

    But don't pay attention to ranked/tournaments where people actually play what is good instead of fun!

    Pubs love Proxy....but you never see her in competitive...but no...that can't be possible because I imagine you see a lot of Proxy in pubs! You know...meaningless games?

    Exactly, thunder is weak, so fix him instead

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 1,208

    @HadronZodiac said:

    Exactly, thunder is weak, so fix him instead

    Thunder doesn't show up in high level tournaments because he's banned lol

    He's weak in pubs and 6v6 but the conc nade is too good in 5v5 since the format forces you to stay together

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,755Special Editor
    edited April 22

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

    Bruh. Like... 3 logical fallacies there. I'll go ahead and link you to two of them.

    Seriously though, are you a troll? You're borderline worse than Martha. No offense Martha.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @Xenithos said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

    Bruh. Like... 3 logical fallacies there. I'll go ahead and link you to two of them.

    Seriously though, are you a troll? You're borderline worse than Martha. No offense Martha.

    Lol when having an opinion makes you a troll

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,538

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Xenithos said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

    Bruh. Like... 3 logical fallacies there. I'll go ahead and link you to two of them.

    Seriously though, are you a troll? You're borderline worse than Martha. No offense Martha.

    Lol when having an opinion makes you a troll

    When you call everything under the sun that beats you OP and when you call everything you play UP, you might be a troll.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 326

    @Sorotia said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Xenithos said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

    Bruh. Like... 3 logical fallacies there. I'll go ahead and link you to two of them.

    Seriously though, are you a troll? You're borderline worse than Martha. No offense Martha.

    Lol when having an opinion makes you a troll

    When you call everything under the sun that beats you OP and when you call everything you play UP, you might be a troll.

    When you assume everything im killed by is OP and everything i play is UP, you might be a troll.

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,538

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Xenithos said:

    @HadronZodiac said:

    @Sorotia said:
    Most useless? He was and still probably is the most picked assault merc...if you can't kill anything with him it isn't his fault, it's called user error.

    Ive seen more thunders and naders than fraggers, so incorrect ;/

    Bruh. Like... 3 logical fallacies there. I'll go ahead and link you to two of them.

    Seriously though, are you a troll? You're borderline worse than Martha. No offense Martha.

    Lol when having an opinion makes you a troll

    When you call everything under the sun that beats you OP and when you call everything you play UP, you might be a troll.

    When you assume everything im killed by is OP and everything i play is UP, you might be a troll.

    Not a assumption when you call so many mercs OP...including someone like Rhino.

Sign In or Register to comment.