Still tired of the phantom exploit

376E1AE459B1376E1AE459B1 Posts: 119
edited January 26 in General Chat

Really.. if you don't want to fix your @$!#, at least limit players to pings under 100. OR make servers dedicated to high-pings, if you really care about those.

But let's face it, there is a REASON those high-pings mostly use Phantom and you know it. Perhaps it's only a minority that is lag-switching, and the rest just choose to play on foreign servers, but they are not clueless about it, they all got the memo by now, they do it on purpose.
Lag should just not be an advantage. Period. Getting killed by katana should be aknowledged by the POV of the victim, not the one of the phantom. Katana shouldn't kill you if the phantom is 5 meters away. Yes, this system is the best for GUNS, but NOT FOR CLOSE COMBAT. Again, there is a reason fighting games require much lower pings to be playable. You made stabbing a key element for some mercs, thus you should disallow high-pings, or give them a dedicated server where everyone is high-ping.

But again, no need to fix this crap if you simply disallow high-ping players.

https://image.ibb.co/cQkW9G/exploit.jpg

Oh and yes, there is another high-ping in that team and he wasn't phantom. You know why? Because he was lvl5 and hadn't received the memo about the exploit yet.

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Comments

  • henki000henki000 Posts: 452

    I dont see any affiliation with high ping and phantom. I'm not buying it, unless we get graph that indicates so. I believe high ping players should play Proxy or Aura. Perhaps Kira or Red Eye if needed. Phantom is pretty much low-tier merc with some potential in my opinion. Phantom uses mainly Blishlok, KEK or Crozni that needs better ping to sustain steady fire. High ping is disadvantage, because your corner peak delays. Often with unstable impact and getting you fired around the corner.

    But I agree that ping restricted servers would clear some air. Thing is, you can actually see difference between 1 ping and 50 ping. So where do we draw the line?

  • 376E1AE459B1376E1AE459B1 Posts: 119
    edited January 26

    @henki000 said:
    I dont see any affiliation with high ping and phantom. I'm not buying it, unless we get graph >that indicates so.

    So do you pretend that, unlike for shooting, Phantom registers hits according to what YOU see, and not what HE sees?

    Because if you don't, I'm sure you understand the problem. Phantom is fast. How many meters can a phantom run in 1 full second? A LOT. On your side he will be meters away when he will slash you. How do you keep your distances when distances don't matter anymore?

    Next time just pay attention to the pings of phantom players. I will let SD make stats, but it's pretty sure that the avg lag of phantom players is the highest of all mercs.

    And why would high ping players play proxy or aura? Those happen to be my main 2 mercs, those I master the most, and I don't see any strong advantage for them having a high ping.

    @henki000 said:
    But I agree that ping restricted servers would clear some air. Thing is, you can actually see >difference between 1 ping and 50 ping. So where do we draw the line?

    I'd draw it at 80ms to start with. It'd be better than nothing.
    But that's not the biggest problem, as those usually don't have their ping peaks when they join. This guy's avg was around 200, and was peaking at 1000 (even though I believe the game won't display or measure up to 1000, so it was probably even higher).

  • henki000henki000 Posts: 452

    @376E1AE459B1
    I dont pretend anything. Quote: "This game uses netcode that uses client-side data for hit registration but it also tries to predict damage. The server gets the data from both clients and along with the prediction data it ouputs what actually happens. " -Amerika_KC June 2015. http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/11694/weird-hit-register-netcode-stuff-going-on

    And why would high ping players play proxy or aura?

    Because they arent usually in frontline, unlike Phantom.

    I'd draw it at 80ms to start with.

    Allright then, I guess that wouldnt eject me in EU/RUS servers. How do you think 80ms+ ping players would feel about this? I guess they would stop playing or play with other high pingers and propel lagging more topical subject.

  • @henki000 said:
    @376E1AE459B1
    I dont pretend anything. Quote: "This game uses netcode that uses client-side data for hit registration but it also tries to predict damage. The server gets the data from both clients and along with the prediction data it ouputs what actually happens. " -Amerika_KC June 2015. http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/11694/weird-hit-register-netcode-stuff-going-on

    Yes and it nearly always favors the shooter. If "what actually happens" was true, you would never get killed through walls. And you know how DB recently fixed those lines nearly always passing through walls to show where your shooter was? By NOT DISPLAYING LINES ANYMORE, lol.
    DB favors the shooter. And it's how things should be, it's the best.. except not for close combat.

    And why would high ping players play proxy or aura?

    Because they arent usually in frontline, unlike Phantom.

    I don't know how you play Aura, but when I'm Aura I'm usually on the frontline, you know, where people die most..

    I'd draw it at 80ms to start with.

    Allright then, I guess that wouldnt eject me in EU/RUS servers. How do you think 80ms+ ping players would feel about this? I guess they would stop playing or play with other high pingers and propel lagging more topical subject.

    You would have a server, you'd just play along with all the other laggers.
    There are plenty, in the match I just left, 3 people with pings around 250. You shouldn't mind playing with other laggers, but you can understand the majority doesn't wanna play against laggers. Sucks to be slayed from meters away, or to get all of the shots at once because they were fired half a second earlier.

  • Ping restricted servers would be nice, just hopefully they don't figure out a way to "SD" it up and instaban people for having a lag spike and accuse them of hacking.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,379

    @MuddyGrenade said:
    Ping restricted servers would be nice, just hopefully they don't figure out a way to "SD" it up and instaban people for having a lag spike and accuse them of hacking.

    there are ways to have intended lag when playing game yknow

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • @GatoCommodore said:

    @MuddyGrenade said:
    Ping restricted servers would be nice, just hopefully they don't figure out a way to "SD" it up and instaban people for having a lag spike and accuse them of hacking.

    there are ways to have intended lag when playing game yknow

    I know this, I'm just talking about people who get one out of no fault of their own.
    The people who do intentionally cause lag deserve punishment, but I understand that's not easy to monitor.

  • EoxEox FrancePosts: 3,204Moderator

    @STARRYSOCK said:
    You posted this before, no one agreed with you. Posting it again won't change anything.
    Wanna know what we think? Go reread the replies to your last thread.
    @Eox Close?

    No need to.

  • henki000henki000 Posts: 452
    edited January 28

    @376E1AE459B1

    You cant even one shot most of the mercs with Katana. It should give everyone plenty of time to respond.

    Semantics. I call the first player in attacking or defending line a frontline. Sure, you can sponge few bullets enemy fire with aura, but you are more trying to lure them. If you kill enemy, they probably just get revived again in their safe shelter, you need to disrupt their line. It's not Auras main job, because you get more vulnerable of enemys first in line players explosives. When playing defending side, you can play Aura your only medic in team. Then you sure dont want to be killed.

    I'm sure those laggers have something to say when game gets unplayable and they are rejected by community.

    Try going other region server with high ping and see yourself if you get advantage with lag.

  • DeathiDeathi Posts: 495

    Doubt ping-restriction alone would help, as this game isn't really taking both directions into account. You also may not forget packetloss on low-ping-connections either. Had plenty of russian 40-ping-players over here in frankfurt, which were spwning around like @$!#.
    But yep, it would be a start it would get rid of the high-pingers which make the ue3-servers barely playable when they join in numbers, and even alone are able to stuck you and kill you with their katanas at distance.

  • 376E1AE459B1376E1AE459B1 Posts: 119
    edited January 29

    Try going other region server with high ping and see yourself if you get advantage with >lag.

    I already have (& yes, I shouldn't even be allowed to), and it has good & bad sides. The good side is, and it has been like this in every FPS, you can dance around and to the enemy you're warping around, that alone is a big advantage, which Phantom abuses too.

    But if you ask me if I've tried playing Phantom on a laggy server, no, I can hardly play phantom because of a bug that I can't even believe to be still in the game: stuck keys.
    The key combo that sticks the most is melee, even though I have it happening with long jumps (like I'm stuck crouching like a @$!#) & other stuff. If I melee, half of the time I'm stuck melee-ing because it didn't register the key release, until I press & release the key again - where there will too be a chance it won't register the release. Thus if I melee I'm generally sticking to melee-ing around like an idiot and I die after my first kill.

    As a programmer I don't even understand how a game (or any app) can miss key releases. Whether you handle messages or you poll, there is just no way to miss a key release.
    I use a PS2 keyboard, while it's true that old keyboards like mine have key combos that won't register, if a key has been pressed, there is simply no way a key release won't be sent. It's impossible, and it has never happened in anything else but DB. Plus I melee using my third mouse button anyway, so if my keys or mouse buttons don't register releases when I press too many at the same time, it happens after these have been gathered in the same pipe.
    And, as a programmer, the only way I can imagine this happening is if an idiot processed 1 max key release per game tick/frame, and stopped there. But game programmers are generally not idiots (unlike in other domains), so..

    Now, while I've rarely seen this very annoying bug reported, it's not just me:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Dirtybomb/comments/45mobg/help_stuck_keys/
    http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/29341/sticky-keys

  • K1X455K1X455 Posts: 1,890

    PS/2 and Win10 is a bad combo.

    Trust me, we touched on that topic in my quest against the infamous DPC/ISR stacking.

  • DeathiDeathi Posts: 495

    Game is also missing Keystrokes (weaponswitches, sucks-up grenades to some other world, and so on) on a server a few miles from here, but probably not 100% perfectly connected to my isp.
    So either their peering of the Frankfurt-servers to my ISP is @$!#-up badly, or their servers got cpu/network problems on their own. And as it happens, that things, at least as far as I can recall, start to happen with highpingers and get worse with the number of them, tada, but it also could be a side-effect of people "messing" with their connections.
    On stockholm-servers, for example, I and many others, seeing the threads here and the comments ingame, get the same stuff all of the time, no matter what.
    So probably really to many game-servers running on the same machine/network-cluster/whatever? The peering @$!# not having enough bandwith? Don't know, not my job.

    Still, on a feeling/working good server, a single highpinger with a katana still will be able to kill you from metres away. And that shouldn't be possible.

  • @K1X455 said:
    PS/2 and Win10 is a bad combo.

    Trust me, we touched on that topic in my quest against the infamous DPC/ISR stacking.

    I'm on Win7, though.

    But really I don't think it's related to PS2, as I quick stab using an extra mouse button (through USB), so the loss of key release has to happen after the place that aggregates/makes abstract all input. I mean I see no reason to miss a mouse button release because of a PS2 keyboard is attached.

  • @Deathi said:
    Game is also missing Keystrokes (weaponswitches, sucks-up grenades to some other world, and so on) on a server a few miles from here, but probably not 100% perfectly connected to my isp.
    So either their peering of the Frankfurt-servers to my ISP is @$!#-up badly, or their servers got cpu/network problems on their own. And as it happens, that things, at least as far as I can recall, start to happen with highpingers and get worse with the number of them, tada, but it also could be a side-effect of people "messing" with their connections.
    On stockholm-servers, for example, I and many others, seeing the threads here and the comments ingame, get the same stuff all of the time, no matter what.
    So probably really to many game-servers running on the same machine/network-cluster/whatever? The peering @$!# not having enough bandwith? Don't know, not my job.

    Still, on a feeling/working good server, a single highpinger with a katana still will be able to kill you from metres away. And that shouldn't be possible.

    If that happens, it's totally unrelated to what I experience, because my problem is 100% local, it's the executable that's missing key releases, nothing server-related.

    It may be when I press 4 things at the same time. Happens if I strafe around using 3 keys and I quick stab, or if I run forward and I long-jump. And I believe it's always the last key release that it doesn't detect. Like if some idiot had programmed the handling of key releases to process at most 3 or 4 keys per game tick - but that'd be really idiotic.

  • znuundznuund Posts: 170

    could it be a ghosting issue of the keyboard?

  • henki000henki000 Posts: 452

    @376E1AE459B1

    I went to Chicago server with ~130ping. Played phantom with three 1-6 levels while I'm at level 77. Tried my best with phantom and got rekt. There was few times I could kill those two alone, but at the end of three rounds, there was no advantage with high ping. I'm not warping in their pov. Just slow and not dodging correctly. No way I could kill anyone in 5 meter distance or dance around enemy. It didnt register my headshots, so they just dropped aura station and fired away with their shotguns.

    Cant see any advantage in close combat with high ping.

  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,249

    OP has a point but its not about katana; thats pretty bad, you can hear phantom from miles away, he can get a long-distance-lag hit but will never get a second swing in before the server decides that they are dead.

    Real phantom high ping menace, just like high ping sniping comes from the burst DPS.

    As high ping phantom you can cloak and ambush an opponent with 3+ headshots before they can even know they are being shot at; at which point a few more bullets and they are down. Hide,
    cloak, repeat

    First!

    48px-First_Blood.png?version=ee44701eadae9f5eb7db0d17c0edc6c9
  • Free2BuyFree2Buy Posts: 5

    The only thing I'm going to add to this is lag switching was an old school console thing. Not a PC thing.

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,743Special Editor
    edited February 1

    @Free2Buy said:
    The only thing I'm going to add to this is lag switching was an old school console thing. Not a PC thing.

    Wow... how wrong this statement is. Maybe physical switch is older, but lag switching is still very real and we have software that makes it easy. IT Technician with several certifications speaking here.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • @henki000 said:
    @376E1AE459B1

    I went to Chicago server with ~130ping. Played phantom with three 1-6 levels while I'm at level 77. Tried my best with phantom and got rekt. There was few times I could kill those two alone, but at the end of three rounds, there was no advantage with high ping. I'm not warping in their pov. Just slow and not dodging correctly. No way I could kill anyone in 5 meter distance or dance around enemy. It didnt register my headshots, so they just dropped aura station and fired away with their shotguns.

    Headshots... with a katana... right.

  • henki000henki000 Posts: 452

    @376E1AE459B1
    Didnt say I did headshots with katana, since it will do same damage to each body part. Playing your best with phantom rarely mean using Katana. If you see warping people, it probably dont have anything to do with ping. Ping will just calculate time to deliver data to server and back. But I bet you already knew that.

  • If you get a kill or be killed is not done by any client. It is done by the server. Both clients send their data to the server and than the server decide who lives or dies on those data.

    I do agree that melee focus mercs have a higher advantage with higher ping. Since you wont see him where he actually is because of the package delay and you most likely are to die because you get hit later. But claiming that people with high ping do it on purpose is a step too far.

  • Rokon2Rokon2 Posts: 118

    Someone explain to me what the Phantom exploit is please?

  • @Rokon2 said:
    Someone explain to me what the Phantom exploit is please?

    the exploit is a lie

    IMO

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,743Special Editor
    edited February 10

    @Rokon2 said:
    Someone explain to me what the Phantom exploit is please?

    The original poster believes that the Phantoms he's running into are using lag switching or forcing the server to have them on a high ping.
    The truth is they aren't or are highly likely not to be, and that his "exploit" is actually just cake from Portal as Pumpkinmeerkat has already said.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • @henki000 said:
    @376E1AE459B1
    Didnt say I did headshots with katana, since it will do same damage to each body part.
    Playing your best with phantom rarely mean using Katana.

    My post is only about the katana. Phantom with a gun isn't a threat (at all).

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