Planned Forum Maintenance - 24th May 2018

We will be doing maintenance on 24th May 2018. The forums will be read-only until the maintenance is finished.

View kick changes are terrible.

ragnakragnak Posts: 51
edited January 27 in General Chat

Why you do this SD? You did the exactly same thing on phantom patch and everyone was whining back then, why try it again?

Its jarring, its even more random, it doesnt make sense. At this point i dont even feel like aiming at the head level, fast rof guns are even more oppressive. Trying to land a headshot on a person where you can only see a head is full on RNG as long as you are getting hit.

EDIT: Melinder post explain pretty well what i meant so i am just going to quote him in my post:

@Melinder said:
For those of you who don't understand exactly what @ragnak is getting at I made a super detailed diagram to demonstrate.

The rise and fall of each graph represents the punch you feel. An increase on the Y-axis represents the initial kick, and a decrease represents it's reset.

The reason this feels more "jarring" is because your aim is essentially moving a further distance with each shot, as it has time to centre off before the next bullet connects, creating a heavier bounce.

I also did test the changes with focus now and its a lot less jarring with it, would explain why some people seems to be confused on why there is some outrage about it. It does makes sense tho, since with focus it doesnt go as high so you can at least land some headshots at longer range. Without focus its a lottery when you try to land a headshot at medium range, especially when all you see is a head.

Focus seems to be mandatory now, not a good design at all. SD either need to make focus baseline or just lower max distance, otherwise most people will just start running focus all the time. Even with focus i still dont like it tho, its just too fast which make it feel terrible, since you have 0 control over it.

Post edited by ragnak on
«1

Comments

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 1,212
    edited January 24

    Hilarious that everyone complains that a sniper shouldn't be able to see when being shot

    Then when SD makes it so that players can't see when being shot, they complain that they can't see.

    lmfao

    "Well it makes sense that THESE people are more immune to maintaining visibility while being shot but SNIPERS are extra sissies and should be blind when being shot."

    If being shot isn't jarring then why have aimpunch at all. It should be jarring and difficult to see. Fast RoF guns are SUPPOSED to be super oppressive, that's why you use them. Your damage is trash but the other guy can't see. As opposed to low RoF guns that murder your opponent before he can react.

    I know people like whipping around and perfect headshotting someone that ganks them but come on lmao

    I've always preferred the BF2/BF3/BF4 way of doing it where any bullet in proximity blurs your vision, wobbles the scope, and generally makes shooting back impossible. But I get it that such a system doesn't work well in this kind of game.

    Why not give yourself a month to adjust before complaining that it's different? Adapt!

  • jooshoyesjooshoyes Posts: 347

    I don't know how it could be worse , they made it faster to reset and that's it, makes it so high rate of fire weapons are LESS oppressive. I for one have found it much better in 1v1s and has made slow rate of fire weapons much more usable against the higher rate of fire counterparts. More could be done tho, but, I found its a decent change.

  • ragnakragnak Posts: 51
    edited January 24

    @bgyoshi said:
    Hilarious that everyone complains that a sniper shouldn't be able to see when being shot

    Then when SD makes it so that players can't see when being shot, they complain that they can't see.

    lmfao

    "Well it makes sense that THESE people are more immune to maintaining visibility while being shot but SNIPERS are extra sissies and should be blind when being shot."

    Thing is, as a sniper all you need to do is land ONE headshot that you co do across the map, it should be hard when getting hit and scoped, but i dont see how making duels with automatic guns jarring is good for anything.

    If being shot isn't jarring then why have aimpunch at all. It should be jarring and difficult to see. Fast RoF guns are SUPPOSED to be super oppressive, that's why you use them. Your damage is trash but the other guy can't see. As opposed to low RoF guns that murder your opponent before he can react.

    And then you realize that high rof guns dont really have low dps, whats more a lot of them have better dps than slower guns.

    I know people like whipping around and perfect headshotting someone that ganks them but come on lmao

    I've always preferred the BF2/BF3/BF4 way of doing it where any bullet in proximity blurs your vision, wobbles the scope, and generally makes shooting back impossible. But I get it that such a system doesn't work well in this kind of game.

    Why not give yourself a month to adjust before complaining that it's different? Adapt!

    Right, BF4 suppression is @$!# fantastic, thats why everyone was whining about it. Everyone loves some random added spread when they are getting shot, on top of blurry vision, view kick and sound muffling. I would love that in DB when i need to land 5 headshots per kill, as oppose to 5 body shots with guns that shoot 2xfaster

    There is nothing to adjust to, the change is simply bad and it wont get any better after i give it some time. It will still shake my screen more than it did in the past, it will still be rng when all i see is a head. Also, why change view kick to something even worse, on top of that we had this @$!# in the past and no one liked it.

    @nokiII said:
    Don't worry, SD has identified the problems with aimpunch and will closely monitor it's effect with their telemetry system. :^)

    Yea, thats @$!# ironic when they said that high rof guns are a problem so they made it even worse. What the actual @$!#.

    @jooshoyes said:
    I don't know how it could be worse , they made it faster to reset and that's it, makes it so high rate of fire weapons are LESS oppressive. I for one have found it much better in 1v1s and has made slow rate of fire weapons much more usable against the higher rate of fire counterparts. More could be done tho, but, I found its a decent change.

    Thats not what i experienced when playing. Before the change it could stack higher but since it was going down slower your crosshair wasnt moving as much. It did go higher but slower, now its just a constant jitter that goes up and down, not something you can adjust to. I wont argue that some people might like it more now, since everyone is different but for me that change was unneeded, dont solve any problems at all and is just more jarring.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 1,212

    @ragnak said:

    Right, BF4 suppression is @$!# fantastic, thats why everyone was whining about it.

    That's why I specified me myself dawg, and not "EVERYONE." I know that I'm usually an outlier when it comes to fun things like being unable to see well under fire. It's called suppressing fire for a reason, and that @$!# doesn't exist in DB. It would be ridiculous to implement suppressing fire on snipers and not everyone else, so it's all or nothing. You don't get to pretend that sniper headshots are easy so they need to be harder to get. DB already is a fast moving game and hitboxes on heads are pretty punishing. If you keep getting plinked then start jumping around corners and strafing more.

    Also, why change view kick to something even worse, on top of that we had this @$!# in the past and no one liked it.

    They didn't change it, they corrected a bug. This was the intent from the beginning.

    What you saw before was viewkick not working correctly. Sorry if you liked it better that way, but it was unintended.

    And yes, if high RoF weapons start overperforming like crazy, guess what the nerfgun will have in its scope next?

  • ragnakragnak Posts: 51

    @bgyoshi said:

    They didn't change it, they corrected a bug. This was the intent from the beginning.

    What you saw before was viewkick not working correctly. Sorry if you liked it better that way, but it was unintended.

    And yes, if high RoF weapons start overperforming like crazy, guess what the nerfgun will have in its scope next?

    Who told you it was a bug? Never heard any dev saying it was a bug (+it would be silly considering how many months it was live), not saying its not possible but you are the first person that called view kick bugged without being sarcastic about it.

    Nerfing guns because of lackluster view kick implementation sounds terrible, not going to lie, unless the only thing being changed is view kick for said guns.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 1,212
    edited January 24

    @ragnak said:
    Who told you it was a bug? Never heard any dev saying it was a bug (+it would be silly considering how many months it was live), not saying its not possible but you are the first person that called view kick bugged without being sarcastic about it.

    ////

    @Exedore said:

    Problem Identified:
    We have identified an issue with view-kick which would allow certain weapons to "stack" view-kick. This meant the player on the receiving end’s view would climb, rather than reset to the original position before the next shot hit.

    ////

    @ragnak said:
    Nerfing guns because of lackluster view kick implementation sounds terrible, not going to lie, unless the only thing being changed is view kick for said guns.

    ////

    @Exedore said:
    This only impacted a few weapons, but was particularly noticeable on the Hochfir, Hurtsall 2K and Burst-fire Rifles.

    This change means that all weapons will no longer be able to climb by stacking view-kick. This should make the feel on the receiving end more controllable without losing the tactical feedback.

    ////
    All they did was fix an unintended error that caused some guns to stack viewkick when they weren't meant to.

    That would be called a bug fix.

  • ragnakragnak Posts: 51

    @bgyoshi said:

    That would be called a bug fix.

    Erm, no. They changed how view kick works for every gun, while pointing out that it was the biggest issue on said guns. Have nothing to do with bugs, unless they said so but they didnt so...

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 1,212

    ..........

    @Exedore said:

    Problem Identified:
    We have identified an issue with view-kick which would allow certain weapons to "stack" view-kick.

    This would not be addressed if it was the intended function of the view kick. As an unintentional error of the game's code, this is called a "bug"

    @Exedore said:

    This change means that all weapons will no longer be able to climb by stacking view-kick.

    This is a remedy to the error which causes it to go away. That's called a "fix"

    So they fixed a bug. This is called a "bug fix"

  • ragnakragnak Posts: 51

    @bgyoshi said:

    This is a remedy to the error which causes it to go away. That's called a "fix"

    So they fixed a bug. This is called a "bug fix"

    I am not even going to argue with you about that, there is no point. You can call it bug fix i will call it bad change. Even if it was bug fix its for the worse, whenever SD decides to change it again is yet to be seen but i am not holding my breath, might as well run around with hochfir and piss off everyone.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 1,212

    @ragnak said:
    might as well run around with hochfir and piss off everyone.

    Now you're thinking like a true Proxy

    Go get 'em tiger >:)

  • This is the worst change the game has seen in a long time :'( View-kick stacking should be fixed but the amount needs to be reduced. SD please fix ASAP!

    Not a fan of the movement/weapon switch penalty added to bolt actions either.

    IMO

  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 176
    edited January 27

    Only played a few hours on this patch. But it seems like Focus is even more mandatory and overall the gunplay feels worse than at any point in the history of the game. Hopefully that's exaggerated but it was unfun enough for me to stop playing before I could confirm.

    Whether you want to call it a bug fix or whatever else it was a major change to the way aimpunch works and feels, and seems to have had the unintended consequence of actually making aiming in duels even more inconsistent. Now, maybe we are all collectively imagining that. But if we aren't then it's nothing less than a major oversight.

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,761Special Editor
    edited January 27

    I'm very confused. I thought the most recent patch REMOVED aimpunch stacking (which was a bug) and also shortened the time between recovery and initial impact so essentially there's less of a punch than there used to be.

    Edit: The intended fix to aimpunch stacking allows aim to revert to original values, and because of this means that every bullet that hits you causes a full bounce motion, making it more jarring as OP stated. Thanks for the clarifications everyone. Patch DID do what was intended, but that revealed a terrible truth. Read below for details. My apologies for what I said.

    Post edited by Xenithos on

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • ragnakragnak Posts: 51
    edited January 27

    @Xenithos said:
    OP doesn't understand what he read or is functioning... and apparently neither do any of the 6 >people agreeing with him...")

    You guys are starting to drive me nuts.

    I think its you who have problems with written text. They even made you a picture :(.

    They didnt change initial impact, all they did is made recovery shorter, which for a lot of situations made view kick even more annoying. You would think that there would be less view kick after the change but thats just not the case. Pre patch, while viewkick could go higher, it wasnt moving as much because recovery was slower and it would overlap with view kick you already received so it just didnt feel as jarring. Also, they wanted to make view kick more controllable which they failed to do since before the patch you at least had some control when it was going down, exactly because it was slower, now its just a jitter both ways, nothing you can do about it.

    I heard that its bearable with focus but having a mandatory augment sounds like a terrible design.

  • K1X455K1X455 Posts: 1,892

    Also, netcode has an effect to aimpunch so unless a fix is done to netcode, the only viable solution is the full removal of aimpunch.

    Think of it.

    1v1s will be settled equally allowing the person who got shot first to recover and deliver appropriate damage. The only upper hand the player has who dealt first damage is the amount of damage already dealt giving him lesser TTK.

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,761Special Editor
    edited January 27

    @ragnak said:

    @Xenithos said:
    OP doesn't understand what he read or is functioning... and apparently neither do any of the 6 >people agreeing with him...")

    You guys are starting to drive me nuts.

    I think its you who have problems with written text. They even made you a picture :(.

    A picture which shows less aimpunch over time without thinking harder. Melinder and your following words helped me figure it out. Their written text didn't go into what would happen with aim as repeated shots and I didn't think about it. My apologies for what I said however.

    They didnt change initial impact, all they did is made recovery shorter, which for a lot of situations made view kick even more annoying.** You would think that there would be less view kick after the change but thats just not the case**. Pre patch, while viewkick could go higher, it wasnt moving as much because recovery was slower and it would overlap with view kick you already received so it just didnt feel as jarring. Also, they wanted to make view kick more controllable which they failed to do since before the patch you at least had some control when it was going down, exactly because it was slower, now its just a jitter both ways, nothing you can do about it.

    You even pointed that out yourself that by what we were told we would think something different than the ending result.

    Anyway, I never said they changed initial impact. I said they changed the time to recovery which is what you ALSO said. Your description paired with Melinder's helped me understand what was actually being said by you. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

    I heard that its bearable with focus but having a mandatory augment sounds like a terrible design.

    Why didn't you just say WHY things were more jarring in your beginning paragraph? Also, I guess I really didn't notice as I pretty much have been playing exclusively with focus these days while Pugging.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,761Special Editor

    Thanks for the explanations guys. I knew I wasn't understanding something, and it probably had more to do with the fact that I've always played with focus, OR I would play Sparks and snipers so the aimpunch has always been an issue for me even before patch.

    Honestly I find it hilarious that I didn't understand what you guys were getting at because in my one post on the preview of the viewkick changes I even said the total aimpunch should be lowered and referenced one of the few guns where it's working AS INTENDED. Rofl.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • ragnakragnak Posts: 51

    @Xenithos said:

    A picture which shows less aimpunch over time without thinking harder. Melinder and your following words helped me figure it out. Their written text didn't go into what would happen with aim as repeated shots and I didn't think about it. My apologies for what I said however.

    No hard feelings, just avoid telling people that they dont know how to read it the future ;p.
    I did test new changes with focus now and it is indeed a lot less jarring, so i cant blame you for not noticing it as much.

  • TBH I don't really feel a difference , but then I suppose you need to be able to aim to notice :)

  • K1X455K1X455 Posts: 1,892

    Has anyone tested the augment Focus since the View-Kick/Aimpunch changes?

    It feels like FOCUS is not working at all.

  • henki000henki000 Posts: 458
    edited January 28

    Why not make aimpunch even harder? K1X455 has a valid point, but it should not affect big picture of developing. We should expect that netcode will be anyway tweaked at the end. Aimpunch is not random, you just need to fire first. It's well earned kill if you do that. Taking cover will always be in this game, but without aimpunch it supports more trench warfare type of cornering. Your opponent lands first shot, escape. You fire first shot, chase. With aimpunch you see nothing, you dont know if you hit each other same time or miss. You stay splattering until someone dies and the game goes on. Without aimpunch you have better awareness of enemy healthbar and you can make these flee/chase calculations. It will make current "good/bad" "mercs/cards" even more unequal. Less disparity or surprise element. Less unexpected tactics and more straightforward lines. Even 1 great commando behind the enemy lines should cause havoc or taken as a serious risk.

  • MelinderMelinder Posts: 738
    edited January 28

    @ragnak @Xenithos

    Higher DPR weapons like the K1 and Shar-C have received unintended and extremely unnecessary buffs from this change. Due to the amount of aimpunch received being directly linked to the damage received, heavier automatic weapons will "kick" your screen harder, and without the slower reset time of the previous version of aimpunch dampening the feeling, these weapons create a crazy amount of disorientation.

    Eradicator of Chimps

  • ragnakragnak Posts: 51

    @Melinder

    Yea, i did notice that, its especially visible when you are getting shot by burst rifles since those 3 bullets comes rather fast while dealing decent damage. To be fair i dont think K1 or especially shar-c are super strong so i dont really care but the change SD made was suppose to make view kick more bearable, but instead made it worse for everything that deal higher damage while not really making it any better against fast rof guns.

    I really hope that there are better changes coming SOON, what we have at the moment isnt really good for anyone.

  • GuziolGuziol Posts: 363

    @$!# aimpunch. Balance the game without it. It's not a fun mechanic at all and im sick and tired of cherrypicking every focus loadout.

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 2,419

    Cant wait for more pts servers with average p> @Faraleth said:

    Hey all,

    Wanted to post here to clarify a few things regarding the view-kick changes. It seems some of our explanation may have been lost-in-translation here.

    This is a graph showing the view-kick difference now, and how it used to function. This example in particular is a worst-case-scenario, if you were being headshot 4 times by a Hochfir SMG:

    As you can see, with the OLD view-kick, you would receive “climbing” view-kick. This means it could stack if you took too much damage from one source too quickly, due to the Hochfir’s incredibly fast fire-rate. Now with the NEW view-kick, it will always reset before receiving a second kick.

    Hope this helps explain a little more behind the changes!

    Your a mod again????

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • EoxEox FrancePosts: 3,206Moderator

    @Mc1412013 said:
    Cant wait for more pts servers with average p> @Faraleth said:

    Hey all,

    Wanted to post here to clarify a few things regarding the view-kick changes. It seems some of our explanation may have been lost-in-translation here.

    This is a graph showing the view-kick difference now, and how it used to function. This example in particular is a worst-case-scenario, if you were being headshot 4 times by a Hochfir SMG:

    As you can see, with the OLD view-kick, you would receive “climbing” view-kick. This means it could stack if you took too much damage from one source too quickly, due to the Hochfir’s incredibly fast fire-rate. Now with the NEW view-kick, it will always reset before receiving a second kick.

    Hope this helps explain a little more behind the changes!

    Your a mod again????

    Nah, the level above. He's a dev now.

  • nokiIInokiII Posts: 580
    edited January 29

    @Faraleth said:
    Hey all,

    Wanted to post here to clarify a few things regarding the view-kick changes. It seems some of our explanation may have been lost-in-translation here.

    This is a graph showing the view-kick difference now, and how it used to function. This example in particular is a worst-case-scenario, if you were being headshot 4 times by a Hochfir SMG:

    As you can see, with the OLD view-kick, you would receive “climbing” view-kick. This means it could stack if you took too much damage from one source too quickly, due to the Hochfir’s incredibly fast fire-rate. Now with the NEW view-kick, it will always reset before receiving a second kick.

    Hope this helps explain a little more behind the changes!

    The only issue is, that the climbing occured was actually pretty minimal while now the not climbing effect is even more jarring on the view as it bounces rapidly up and down.

    Here have a look at the old aimpunch climb with a hochfir at close range. (7 shots)
    https://streamable.com/737ts

    First example is without focus.

    nerf snippers.
Sign In or Register to comment.