Is Rhino at a Good Spot?

XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,704Special Editor
edited January 10 in Mercenary Discussion

Recently in a thread complaining about Rhino Spam I've seen a few posts here and there that makes me think some of you guys truly believe that Rhino is too powerful now. (Which has rather more recently come around as a topic from what I can understand, despite his "buffs" coming out over two months ago.) I find this almost shocking compared to most of the older posts I remember about how people felt about him. However I would agree that when he is spammed against incompetent teams he is certainly a force to be reckoned with. I want to have a more accurate graph of what people actually think. The most recent changes to Rhino both directly and indirectly according to last 5 patch notes back to August 2017...

RHINO
Rhino was weakened by some of the changes in the last update and we wanted to re-address his position in the game. This change focuses on keeping players shooting for longer.
Minigun energy cost reduced by ~ 25%
Minigun max spread reduced by ~ 10%

Minigun headshot multiplier removed (Just before the most recent balance pass) I'd also like to point out that the last things they did to him before this was increased the amount of time it took for him to charge up his minigun, AND decreased the amount of time it took for him to reach max spread and overheating. All of which were nerfs.

AURA
We've fixed a bug that prevents the Potent Packs Augment from improving the Healing Station. To compensate for that, we've reduced the base healing rates so that with the Potent Packs the Healing Station heals at almost exactly the same rates as before.
Reduced base healing rate to 26hp/s (from 31hp/s)
Reduce base self-healing rate to 24hp/s (from 28hp/s)
Fixed bug where Potent Packs Augment didn't improve Healing Station's rate

Reduced Health Station HP per second from 26 to 23 (most recent balance pass)
(This is a buff to ALL players... Increased lifespan of dropped Health Packs or Ammo Packs to 35s (from 25s))

For those of you unaware - A direct hit with Javelin will kill him. A headshot with a Fel-IX when snitched will instantly kill him from full 200hp and I believe it instant gibs him too.

Try to take into account in your answers all of the different factors surrounding Rhino. Such as his place in pubs versus ranked, that he is a HUGE target, and rather obvious if he's a winding or shooting his mini gun. Also remember that he can only use shotguns (which are weird atm) and has the slowest movement speed in DB.

Is Rhino at a Good Spot? 36 votes

Rhino is perfect where he's at right now. No changes are necessary.
25%
SzakalotbinderrBryckoCraiknWatchAsILeadMr.CuddlesworthBegin2018fryszopenspectre_nc 9 votes
Splash Damage over-balanced, Rhino is currently a little more powerful than he should be.
13%
MelinderDemolamaMeerkatsrotermax1Wulie 5 votes
RHINO IS OP, NERF NAO.
8%
Sytryhenki000phobiatic 3 votes
Rhino is still weak/Underbalanced in the end.
25%
ReddeadcapSorotiaImSplooshBooryDarthNaderAlbinMattMuddyGrenadeWintergreenSiwaonaDaphnewenARandomLugia 9 votes
I got other ideas/he needs a rework.
22%
LifeupOmegaK1X455STARRYSOCKTheStrangerousragnakDys[fn]alDa_MummyOmen267901 8 votes
Rhino is X in disorganized settings, but in competitive he's Y. (explain below)
5%
Xenithosboerhae 2 votes

I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

Comments

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,704Special Editor
    Rhino is X in disorganized settings, but in competitive he's Y. (explain below)

    I meant to post this yesterday. Saw this was still a draft in one of my many open tabs.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 2,303

    He's OP in close range, useless at long range.

    MakeMachinePistolsGoodAgain

  • STARRYSOCKSTARRYSOCK Posts: 1,616
    I got other ideas/he needs a rework.

    Honestly I just think he's out of place in DB. Still impractical in comp because he's very situational, still an absolute meme in the hands of noobs.
    For some reason people don't seem to notice that in addition to the recent buff, he's been indirectly buffed too. With shotguns becoming sniper rifles, I've seen a lot of rhinos using them as less of a secondary now, which isn't what I think rhino should be.

    Personally, I like the idea of him being a complete walking tank that everyone has to work together to kill. But buffs to weapons like shotguns or explosives means he can be taken out pretty easily now.
    Because of that, I think his health should be drastically increased to 250 or even higher, and his sensitivity lowered while wielding his minigun, similarly to what heavy melee attacks used to do.
    Reduced spread is a good thing in a way, since now he has to actually aim at enemies instead of just pointing at a crowd and getting a kill. But I might also reduce his maximum range as well to avoid the problem with shotgun sniper rifles we have now.

    Aura's several recent nerfs, along with a lot of counters for the medstation, mean that it's not actually a massive problem as long as your team knows what they're doing. A few map areas could use improvement to better allow these counters, like the final objective of bridge, but I think aura is fine where she is. Any more nerfs to her and she risks losing her competitive edge.

  • K1X455K1X455 Posts: 1,885
    I got other ideas/he needs a rework.

    Replace his Anhuld with Blishlok

  • WulieWulie Posts: 31
    Splash Damage over-balanced, Rhino is currently a little more powerful than he should be.

    I find the Damage he inflicts on short to mid range slightly too strong. Its damn often so much bullets that you dont even find time to get some grenades to his face before he just shredds you to bits... Would like a little less RoF on his minigun. Shotguns are fine.

  • StIwYStIwY Posts: 49
    edited January 10

    @Lord_Coctus said:
    He's OP in close range, useless at long range.

    That is his role. A situational merc, viable only on close combat spots. Already useless con high skill matches = not OP. Besided he needs to be healed often to stay alive.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,326

    I like thunder more than Rhino but rhino is just good because infinite ammo

    Hammock - Oh the Bliss (Reinterpretation) | Far Cry 5
                                                                    
  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 406
    edited January 10
    Rhino is still weak/Underbalanced in the end.

    Focus fire= Dead Rhino
    Against disorganized pubs he's... okay? Really just depends on the match.
    In ranked he's still outclassed by the other Assault mercs, even Thunder has a position similar to Redeye, where he works best with good communication. Rhino is just too easily deleted by too much stuff.
    Maybe give him an ability similar to Orisa's in Overwatch where she can reduce damage dealt to herself for a period of time. At the end of the day, his survivability is his biggest problem, but even if he gets an ability like that it still may not be enough.
    Guess I should've put my vote in rework, but eh. Still don't think he will ever be in a position where he can compete with Fragger and Nader.

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,704Special Editor
    edited January 10
    Rhino is X in disorganized settings, but in competitive he's Y. (explain below)

    To me, Rhino is pretty inefficient in organized settings. The moment the enemy team knows where the Rhino is he'll be dead, and even with a team trying to support a Rhino, it doesn't often end well. It also means his positioning becomes even MORE important because of his only utility really being surprise close range melts. Which would probably work as well or better from other people that can start with a frag or thunder bomb for the rest of the team to move in.

    Now, in disorganized play, it depends on how dumb each side is. A Rhino without a medic is just not fun, though still okay. A rhino with a medic, that camps a different position every spawn wave ends up being a ferocious thing. I got a 6 kill minigun streak on the last objective of Vault by MYSELF. But then again, I've also done close to the same thing but with Jav and Stoker. I would honestly say Rhino is in a fine spot right now, but I'm not completely positive.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • Dys[fn]alDys[fn]al Posts: 72
    edited January 10
    I got other ideas/he needs a rework.

    In his current state he's far too situational, and too slow.

    Most importantly I think the speed penalty while spinning the barrel should be eliminated. This reduces the importance of nitro while also giving rhino more mobility. He's also not compensating for recoil so it makes no sense that holding a button to spin the barrel slows him down. He should not be able to sprint or jump while spinning the barrel.

    I think he needs a speed buff, not a large one, just get his speed closer to something that fits the game better.

    After those changes I would wait to see their effect before changing damage or accuracy of the minigun

    EDIT: I was thinking about a rework, but really this is what I decided was best

  • Rhino is perfect where he's at right now. No changes are necessary.

    Only time he's op is when he has his Aura twins with him and you forgot to bring any explosive characters.

  • StIwYStIwY Posts: 49
    edited January 11

    Mediocre players thinks hes OP, because they just don't know how to counter him, skilled players think otherwise. Since mediocre players are the majority of community = more blames and tears.

  • I got other ideas/he needs a rework.

    In my opinion, he's overpowered in specific situations and said situations really only come up in pubs.

    If your team doesn't have a good sniper or a couple javelins/fraggers and you get put up against 3-4 Rhinos (especially with an aura) it can be a total nightmare. This generally won't happen in ranked play, but in pubs it's a serious possibility.

    On an additional note, I think he's a bit overpowered on underground, and a bit underpowered on other maps in msot cases.

  • LifeupOmegaLifeupOmega Posts: 2,056
    edited January 11
    I got other ideas/he needs a rework.

    Just feels out of place and as such feels incredibly boring/broken to fight. That you don't even need to go for headshots is a major factor in this, as well as the fact that you can easily bounce around while revving to catch anyone off guard. All they did was ultimately make him a larger chore to deal with, and he can now safely sit with recons in the "jesus christ stop ruining the game for everyone else" category.

    Reminder that it's always okay to vote kick a sniper, no matter how well they're doing.
  • MeerkatsMeerkats Posts: 134
    edited January 11
    Splash Damage over-balanced, Rhino is currently a little more powerful than he should be.

    Nitros should be nerfed from 50% current ( iirc ) to 12.5% reduction. This will do two things: make Nitros less of a must have perk and reduce Rhino's offensive effectiveness.

    Rhino is supposed to be a defensive bulwark, and when playing Rhino, he should require a complementary team composition to provide support. Right now, with his fast spin up time through Nitros, he can be a legitimate offensive threat with minimal support.

    If Rhino is to get any improvements to his speed, whether reducing movement penalty while spinning up / firing or a straight movement speed buff, he should receive an accompanying HP nerf.

  • SytrySytry Posts: 79
    RHINO IS OP, NERF NAO.

    @Omen267901 said:
    In my opinion, he's overpowered in specific situations and said situations really only come up in pubs.

    If your team doesn't have a good sniper or a couple javelins/fraggers and you get put up against 3-4 Rhinos (especially with an aura) it can be a total nightmare. This generally won't happen in ranked play, but in pubs it's a serious possibility.

    On an additional note, I think he's a bit overpowered on underground, and a bit underpowered on other maps in msot cases.

    Rhino problem is the ability like "unique cold or nitros" camping in maps like underground, terminal, castle and bridge in defense has great advantage.

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 2,173
    I got other ideas/he needs a rework.

    Clearly they were inspired by TF2 heavy.
    BAD IDEA!

    If you wanted a PROPER heavy tank class, then look no further than these 2:

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • boerhaeboerhae Posts: 251
    Rhino is X in disorganized settings, but in competitive he's Y. (explain below)

    In my experience, Rhino is cool defensively, like on the barricade room on Bridge or the barrier room on Underground: he can hold that point really well if he's got a good medic with him. However, he's not versatile at all. He goes from extremely useful when the team (or part of the team he's with) is in one spot, to almost worthless when the team is moving.

    Honestly he's so situational that it's difficult to call him useful. He'll dominate for a little while and then fade into obscurity, usually for a long amount of time, like until the objective moves (referring to SW), or the rest of the game. I personally hate to play him.

    When I play Rhino, I usually only find myself doing well when the other team is pushing into a small area like a hallway or a small room. In that instance I play like a beast and am able to hold down the area effectively.
    Then the objective will change, or the enemy team will try going a different route, and it takes too long to get there and the action is over. To combat this, I try to stay in one high-traffic area, and that's fairly boring.

    My opinion might be unpopular (people think he's OP and I think he's really rather weak over the course of the game), but there you go.

  • ReddeadcapReddeadcap Posts: 1,310
    Rhino is still weak/Underbalanced in the end.

    Imho his movement speed with the minigun's barrels spooling be the same as when they're not, the only downside with the minigun equip should be the lack of jumping.

  • I really dont know im awfull playing him but some really good rhinos are deadly af so i think ist ok as he is but pls dont let him in merc Rotation its a disaster to see the newbies playing him

  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 235
    I got other ideas/he needs a rework.

    @TheStrangerous said:
    Clearly they were inspired by TF2 heavy.
    BAD IDEA

    Well if they want a full on TF2 heavy why not make his Minigun ammo based instead of cooldown based (not gonna be making firends today am I). I know it Sounds op at first but think about it. He would need more than just his Aura boyfriend to keep him going and even if he has a Kira or whatever fire Support he would be tied to a certain area and would be even easier to predict and eliminate.

  • Rhino is perfect where he's at right now. No changes are necessary.

    I wonder how many of you have played Rhino for a relatively long period of time (not accusing). 5 games aren't enough, 10 and you start to get creative with the strategies and by 15 you get that he's more a fat TF2 scout than a TF2 heavy. With the recent shotguns rework he is deadlier than he used to be, and can work relatively well (at least in pubs) if your shotgun and revolver game is on point. People think of him as a large target but it is surprisingly difficult to headshot or land consecutive hits on a dodging Rhino than most people give him credit for.

    That is while using is primary and secondary weapons of course, his ability is an ability and just like a good Nader uses the launcher on specific occasions so a good Rhino uses the Minigun when he is certain it will have a dramatic effect on the enemy team.

    Opinion part
    His ONLY limiting factor right now from being played more seriously are the shotguns, just like the effectiveness of Fletcher is limited by having only the Blishlok (which isn't a bad gun but harder to use and less effective up close). If he had access just to the Hochfir, he would be pretty scary even on Attack.

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