Underground Design Update - Issues Identified

SD_AKSD_AK Posts: 3Developer
edited January 4 in Announcements

Hey everyone!

Thanks for letting us know about all your issues with Underground and your suggestions for how we can fix them.
We have collated all your comments and have grouped them into key areas for improvement that we would like to address.
We would now like to share these problem areas with you to get your ideas on how you would like to see them resolved.

When leaving feedback/ideas, please do the following:

  • Please use a header for each of your points and write your comments below. This will help us organise all your feedback
  • Have open discussions about the issues and solutions
  • Feel free to post images and video's for clarity

General

There is not enough opportunities for Air Support

Air support is not useful enough throughout the map. Air support can effectively knockout strong defensive positions giving attackers a better chance to push and complete objectives.

Reported by: Pegarex, k3endo, woodchip, PorkyPerson

"Please suggest areas that you would like to see opened up for Air Support. There is a balance that must be maintained but we are happy to explore this further."

Invisible Walls

There a many invisible walls that prevent free movement around the map.

Reported by: ImSploosh

"We don't like using invisible walls however sometimes they are needed for gameplay purposes.Please let us know about any invisible walls and we will fix them on a case by case basis."

OBJ1

Too easy for defenders to spawn camp via balcony

Defenders are easily able to take balcony where they can effectively render the attackers left route out of spawn useless. This combined with a defensive hold from roof can stop attackers pushing the right route out of spawn. The only option left is for attackers to take the lift to balcony pushing through a tight choke at the top (which is also signalled by the lifts bell) straight into the sightlines of the defenders camping above.

Reported by: Pegarex, kopyright, blufflord, Melinder, DrAxOr, Angel_Stimpy, Eox, OwynTyler, auwi, woodchip, LifeupOmega, MegapiemanPHD, Nymain, FishRolls, Snydder_Bitter

"We 100% agree that balcony can cause frustration for attackers. There are so many ways we can improve this area and would like to discuss this point with you in more detail. What do you think is the best solution and how would you implement it."

Roof offers too much cover for defenders

It can be difficult for attackers to push out of spawn when defenders are set up on roof. Defenders have lots of cover that gives a big advantage.

Reported by: Melinder

"This one directly relates to the balcony issues. We would like to debate how to reduce the cover here to expose defender positions from attackers side."

Transition Area

Spawn Transitions

There is no clear indicator as to why attacker’s spawn shifts from above the escalators to the level below often ontop of where defenders are defending from.

Reported by: kopyright, Dentist-svk, spookify, DrDacreamer

"Spawn changes in Dirty Bomb are normally triggered via player events, in Undergrounds case this isn't true. We would like to hear your suggestions on how we can make this spawn transition more clearer through visuals only."

OBJ3

Secondary Gas Route gives little advantage

The secondary gas route is a much weaker position than the generator room and thus gets used far less.

Reported by: Woodchip, MegaplemanPHD, Snydder_Bitter

"We would like to hear your ideas for making the Secondary Gas Route more advantageous for attackers."

«1

Comments

  • SteelMailboxSteelMailbox Posts: 1,601

    I had this idea around 2-3 years ago.
    My idea revolved around the escalator area and the problem with it not having a clear objective and just a "die/camp until time's up and you got the forward spawn point". In my opinion I would like to see a capture objective added to the main point in the escalator spot (like in Terminal) to provide a clear cut objective and to put the map more in line with other maps in the game (that being that only this map has 2 objectives while the others have 3).
    While I am not experienced at map design this change shouldn't be that difficult AFAIK as it is removing a few pieces of cover, adding new cover and of course the capture point while performing changes to the timer to reflect the added objective.

    To be honest, This signature is the best idea for a signature I currently have.
  • NexDroidNexDroid Posts: 77

    OBJ 1 - BALCONY: Maybe add some kind of barrier so enemies can't jump directly from roof to balcony unless they destroy (or repair) another generator that will lower a barrier. Maybe place that generator at place where can attackers quite easily protect it, like under the canary wharf sign. This still doesn't solve problem with ninja proxies rushing to elevator and placing mines at its exit - personally I'd like to see a gap behind an elevator and rest of balcony so you have to jump over (with a walljump) to get there.

    OBJ 1 - ROOF: Roof is and always has been a problem. Defenders can't get there as easy as it would be neccessary to quickly clear it. And if they eventually get there they have very little dodging space so you take hits and die or jump/fall down from a pipe and live - but getting back up takes a time that can be used against you as attackers can heal on the roof. I'd suggest adding a little platform (maybe with a little wall?) at the end of a pipe near roof or making some kind of a balcony around whole side of roof near deffenders.

    OBJ - GAS CHAMBER (ehm tunnel): Truth is that it is kind of useless. Maybe add a MG nest at it so it can help up attackers? Also because that it can't be fight at its very interior gas chamber gets ignored much more that barriers room. Maybe add a wall near that pipe that goes through the wall from deffenders site so it can be easier walljumped to the nest? I know it can be longjumped at this moment but a lot of players don't know of this possibility or maybe can't reach that due their lack of jump skills.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,100

    i feel like we need to have 2 underground map just to compare which one feels better because right now i feel like if any of the side (attacker or defender) gains the balcony, it has good things of their own.

    you can actually snipe people trying to defuse if you plant it at the right spot and force the defender to deal with you by climbing the pipe and dealing with you takes around 7-10 second max. This basically deny defusing and if you get a good team, its just ensure 1st objective exploded with less effort.

    imo its rare for me to get camped from up there, but if they were to camp from up there its usually because nobody was playing from the balcony and made it easy for the defender to invade.

    the defender elevator tho, thats another story.
    if an attacker able to climb up there he/she can lock both attacker spawn and it is really hard to remove (especially if its redeye or rhino) and harder to jump into from the outside

    one of the easiest way to reduce the camping is to remove both of the elevator sound so the camper wont know if it climbs or not

    or if SD decide to do it the not so easy way, create a yellow pipe branch from the middle to the balcony.

    the middle ground is to remove all the boxes and cover on the balcony so people on the bottom can fling grenades, explosive snipe the people on the balcony and connect it to attacker side elevator balcony.

    Electric Light Orchestra - Prologue/Twilight
                                                                    
  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 149

    @LifeupOmega said:

    >

    Gas tunnel is honestly fine in my opinion, given that one of the optimal plants is directly in the line of sight of it, and people can set up there to cover it. Why it may appear weak is that defenders have a variety of jumps to get into it from their side, allowing flanks to main and gen room (which is a good thing imo).

    >

    I wanted to respectfully disagree with this. While it's true that controlling Gas tunnel ultimately helps you defend against defuses, and therefore has a use, it remains a weak avenue of attack. So it leads to a situation where all the action flows to the Gen side which sort of violates the "there are always 3 viable routes" principle. Problem isn't really that the Gas tunnel is worthless, just that the action revolves too much around the Gen room.

  • SD_AKSD_AK Posts: 3Developer

    @LifeupOmega said:
    Still feel that escalators should be a one time flag cap for a moving spawn instead of the two spawn rule currently in effect. It's both more interesting (adding what is essentially a third major objective) and more informative than what we have now. Sure this isn't just visual, but it would most likely make the map less annoying to play on in the transition from first to second, and would only require a player to reach the flag and stay on it for a short duration to move on.

    Adding a new objective into the middle of the map and having it function well without re-balancing the map is a very large undertaking, as the map is relatively balanced, adding new objectives would be a large scale change with unforeseeable changes to the balance.

    @woodchip said:

    I wanted to respectfully disagree with this. While it's true that controlling Gas tunnel ultimately helps you defend against defuses, and therefore has a use, it remains a weak avenue of attack. So it leads to a situation where all the action flows to the Gen side which sort of violates the "there are always 3 viable routes" principle. Problem isn't really that the Gas tunnel is worthless, just that the action revolves too much around the Gen room.

    So the question is what can we do to make the gas tunnel a stronger more viable option for attack?

    @NexDroid said:

    OBJ - GAS CHAMBER (ehm tunnel): Truth is that it is kind of useless. Maybe add a MG nest at it so it can help up attackers? Also because that it can't be fight at its very interior gas chamber gets ignored much more that barriers room. Maybe add a wall near that pipe that goes through the wall from deffenders site so it can be easier walljumped to the nest? I know it can be longjumped at this moment but a lot of players don't know of this possibility or maybe can't reach that due their lack of jump skills.

    The trick jump could be a little more intuitive for defenders but the main issue is making this route stronger for attackers. I think an MG here would be a bit too much!

    Good work using the headers BTW :smile:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    one of the easiest way to reduce the camping is to remove both of the elevator sound so the camper wont know if it climbs or not
    or if SD decide to do it the not so easy way, create a yellow pipe branch from the middle to the balcony.
    the middle ground is to remove all the boxes and cover on the balcony so people on the bottom can fling grenades, explosive snipe the people on the balcony and connect it to attacker side elevator balcony.>

    Removing the audio cue is the simplest option but probably won't fix the issue. The problem is pushing out of the tight chokee elevator straight into the crosshairs of a camping defender (legitimate tactic). A larger change is still needed as you've suggested such as removing all cover to expose players up there.

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 2,097

    I hate change on things

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • MelinderMelinder Posts: 726
    edited January 5

    @SD_AK said:
    So the question is what can we do to make the gas tunnel a stronger more viable option for attack?

    To me, the reason it's underused is because pushing Generator Room / Middle is more important, as in order to crumble a defence, Attackers are generally required to destroy the Health Station that is placed on the yellow pipes in front of the bombsite. With the Health Station alive, pushing Middle or Gas is near impossible due to the Defenders having cover in the form of the yellow pipe, and a health station that is in a spot that is near impossible to reach for Attackers.

    Tackling this issue, to me, would be one of the best ways to create a less Defender-sided last section. As it is now, Attackers are somewhat forced to take Generator Room because of this, which is a completely different issue of it's own, due to Attackers having to push a corridor with a height disadvantage and minimal cover, whereas the Defenders have the height advantage and a corner to fall back on.

    Image for reference

    Eradicator of Chimps

  • OBJ 2- There is only one real viable plant option.
    Usually with a defuse map of any kind, there are multiple plant spots that can be used for the multiple positions the attackers can take hold of. The issue is that Underground has an almost God like plant spot that is always the best option. The far right of the site, right in front of the ramp on that side.

    Sightline from the generator room, giving a forward, covered area for attackers to watch and shoot at.

    A sightline from attacker spawn that snipers can use to shoot anyone defusing with no real consequences.

    The gas tunnel has a pretty direct line of sight of the spot.

    Fire supports have the perfect spot where their splash damage can hit anyone defusing from behind the control panel (if they aren't already being shot at).

    (Side Note: You can also plant in front of the desk on the site. Would recommend changing this so it's more apparent that it is an option, as it is also a good plant if you are being shot upon by defenders just spawning in.

  • TheatrumTheatrum Posts: 24

    There is only one place for attackers to pop out the gas tunnel which makes it extremely easy to cover. Perhaps multiple openings or something else there could help?

  • XSheepieXXSheepieX Posts: 80
    edited January 5

    I would maybe suggest having the tunnel entrance not look out not facing the obj and instead have it come round the side a bit and have the tunnel exit be on the wall to the right hand side of the tunnel if you were to exit the tunnel as it is now. That way you could then put a few boxes in that area and hold it and you might be able to use it to take out defenders holding the central pipes. I feel that would be more useful. It would also protect against snipers.

    Hell you could even have the tunnel split into two parts. I like the MG idea perhaps...

  • NazzumNazzum Posts: 2

    The secondary objective on the last part; all the action ia concentrated in the secondary objective, where you have to repair a generator to close the door, or destroy it if you are deffending.

    It's so infuriating when new players go straight to that objective and not to the main one.

    Besides, those doors are useless 90% of the time.

  • giganizergiganizer Posts: 3

    GAS TUNNEL - maybe the gen room also has to be reworked to make it more relevant. If the gen room window was bigger and the pillar would be removed, neither team would be able to defend the OBJ platform without significantly exposing themselves. Without the pillar, it would also be easier to clear the room with explosives or simply by rushing it as there wouldn't be cover. The gas tunnel's vantage point could also have a solid wall instead of a small fence.

    SPAWN TRANSITIONS (+ AIR SUPPORT) - I feel like the windows on the whole escalator area are too much of an obstacle for air support. It can be tough to line up an airstrike that strikes the enemy sufficiently and goes thru the window. The roof lines between the windows should be really small or none at all and you should be able to place an airstrike, even if a part of it would hit the roof line (I'm talking about Arty and Kira especially). Tho IMO, the lines should just be so small that an airstrike would ignore them. The area in front of the lift (on the top) should also be accessible to airstrike, but perhaps there should be a second window or something like that. Attackers also shouldn't be able to place it without pushing forwards and expose themselves in the open. That said, I feel like this could be quite strong, so the "airstrikable" zone should only go far enough for mercs with 90 or 100 HP or more to survive in the corner.

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 2,097

    @auwi said:
    OBJ 2 - GAS TUNNEL

    I've suggested this before, but I think creating another entrance into the decon room would work well for attackers, making it more useable. Maybe the generator could instead open the view from the decon room instead? It would be something worth fighting over just like the other generator in the security room. In addition the pipe hole can be taken out to stop snipers from using it too well since the sightlines in both directions cover a lot of area.

    TO EVERYONE ELSE - It's a lot easier usually to try and speak in images, it helps the map makers a lot!!
    - To open Underground for yourself in a single player game, press "~" to open console once you've started DB
    - In console, type "switchlevel obj_underground" to start a game on Underground
    - Once in game, type "spectate" to switch to a free cam spectating mode
    - Use "F12" to take screenshots of areas, you can also open the file location and take out these pictures and edit them in paint or photoshop.

    No do not remove my sniping perch where i cover c4 no no no

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • itaih1itaih1 Posts: 2

    The opening scene makes it look like fighting down the escalators is an objective on its own, when after 2 spawns the attackers automatically spawn down there. Maybe add a forward spawn to capture. This however will need to balance out with a slightly easier 3rd objective.

    Additionally, Rhino in the plant site on attackers 1st is a guaranteed win.

  • attackers can sniper and call airstrikes from their spawn on 3 rd obj, that is ridiculous

  • I think that closing the doors in the second obj is useless tbh. anyone can easily jump over it.
    I would like it to do something that gives more of an advantage/disadvantage. maybe it could activate a manual MG next to the generator that peaks out of the window (with the window size increasing of course).

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 4,100

    @HELGA_bunga said:
    attackers can sniper and call airstrikes from their spawn on 3 rd obj, that is ridiculous

    you can also do put down airstrike in Dome 1st and 2nd objective from the spawn, its not a bad thing.

    @takenWasTaken said:
    I think that closing the doors in the second obj is useless tbh. anyone can easily jump over it.

    jumping over it=/= running walljumping out of the spawn faster
    the retractable gate does indeed slow down defender and potentially choke people trying to defuse.

    Bushwhacker, Rhino, Thunder, Fragger, Snipers on attackers benefits greatly from this gate but not to the point of crippling the defender to the point of not being able to get out of the spawn. Exactly the point why its called secondary objective.

    Electric Light Orchestra - Prologue/Twilight
                                                                    
  • BashkovBashkov Posts: 3

    Disagree...

    The only point I agree with strongly is the 2nd objective spawn points, they do seem to push defenders really far back really quickly sometimes without much reason.

    The other points raised that I've seen so far just seem like people not understanding how to play the map...

    Perhapppps changing the elevator at the 1st objective to a set of stairs might be okay, but people up there camping does not in any way stop the attacking team reaching the objective. It's not like they only have melee weapons.. Learn to aim? xD

    Just my thoughts...

    Underground is one of my favorite maps tbh!

    xx

  • teflonloveteflonlove Posts: 507
    edited January 6

    Too easy for defenders to spawn camp via balcony

    Why not remove the balcony entirely? There is rarely something going in there that contributes to an interesting game. It's either unused, defenders camp there and lock down the attacker spawn or some dumb attacker sniper camps there without actually hitting anyone. Occasionally attackers use it to clear defenders holding the roof, but the same can be achieved using nades, air strikes and laser from the ground.

  • Grave_KnightGrave_Knight Posts: 919

    Do wish the more unknown and lesser used tricks to move around were easier and more obvious. Like jumping up onto the storage containers in front of the ticket booth to get on the metal detectors and on the roof.

    The back section of the first objective, the defender's "sniper" post also needs to be made more useful.

  • OBJ1

    The issue here is that the attacking team starts with a lot of height advantage but that advantage is automatically negated by the 2 corridors they are forced into. The area above the point is supposed to be for defending while the balcany is a counter to this. I'd suggest making the balcony accessible from high ground with easily defendable stairs leading down to the lower area. This way the attacking team doesn't have an uphill battle to get to that spot. I'd also suggest having anything the defenders can use to parkour over to this area be lower than the balcony itself, that way attackers can use it to drop down but attackers can't jump up to it.

    Another issue with this area are the 2 corridors right after the attackers spawn stairs being long sightlines without much in the way of cover. They are just straight long hallways that snipers can easily camp. Make these routes less of a straight line and slap in some nice cover attackers can use. There's also all that unused space below the attackers spawn that just seems pointless. Maybe redesign attackers spawn so that this area has a purpose.

    The last thing this area needs is a 3rd way for attackers to leave spawn. Right now both exits from attackers spawn lead pretty much to the same place and can both be covered from the same location, this is not good. Attackers could use a 3rd route that goes around in a different way and leads to an exit that defenders have can't all stand in one spot to cover. Maybe have a path that goes over the train on attackers left and wraps around to that lower area.

    Also possible shorten the distance between attacker spawn and the first objective. Since it's the first objective in the map, it should theoretically be one of the easier ones to complete with objectives becoming more difficult as the map advances.

    Here's a quick drawing of these ideas:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/j2wrbh8pm79i6mb/underground_obj1.png?dl=0

    ROOF OFFERS TOO MUCH COVER FOR DEFENDERS

    Just open the sky so that people can call in artillery or lasers or whatever. That should help.

    SPAWN TRANSITIONS

    For this you could probably just take the flag/pylon prop from the forward spawn on terminal, put it at the transition area, and have the attackers capture it like an objective point. That way people it'll make sense when spawns change and people can see what is going on visually while also making that area a bit more interesting.

    OBJ3

    Part of the problem with this tunnel I feel is that players aren't drawn to it. It's so far out of the way compared to the other paths that people don't think to use it instead of them. It's also a dropdown path which means that anyone going in that direction is stuck over there and can't easily retreat. This was done to try and balance that path so it's not overpowered but it makes it less desirable. What also doesn't help is that it's so far away from the generator that controls the defenders doors. That generator room is a very sought after spot since having the doors closed is rather useful when it comes to planting the bomb and winning the map. This isn't a bad thing but it does mean that the gas route needs something close or equally as interesting/important to draw players in that direction. I'd suggest shortening the path so it's not so much of a round-a-bout and moving it closer to the other or moving around the stairs leading to the area infront of it making that path more obvious to attacking players. Keeping the dropdown is good but maybe having the exit lead to some decent highground over part of the final objective would make this path more desirable since it would be more useful when trying to plant or defend a bomb. Would have to do some play testing though to find the right balance so it doesn't feel unfair.

    That's all the ideas I got for now. Hope it helps.

  • NexDroidNexDroid Posts: 77

    I really like the idea of forward spawn near escalators leading to second obj. Attackers would need to capture it in order to move defenders spawn to very back of second obj. It would add another obj to fight for

  • frostyvampirefrostyvampire Posts: 1,177

    @SD_AK said:
    Adding a new objective into the middle of the map and having it function well without re-balancing the map is a very large undertaking, as the map is relatively balanced, adding new objectives would be a large scale change with unforeseeable changes to the balance.

    But what if you added a one time forward spawn capture point to more maps
    This includes:
    Underground under elevators
    Bridge after the EV passes the barricade
    Trainyard after destroying first objective
    You can find a place for it on almost all maps to encourage more defending of choke points, once the attackers capture the point, their spawn moves forward and the defenders CANNOT recapture it (unlike the forward spawn on Terminal that can be captured 100 times in one game)

  • Wolven_Wolven_ Posts: 2

    Since no one from the competitive side has spoken up yet...

    OBJ 1 - BALCONY

    Main issue is the elevator itself. Doesn't matter if the elevator makes any noise or not, the fact that the only way to access the balcony from attacker's side is from that elevator is the issue.

    It's incredibly easy to predict. I won't get into the meta, but any decent team on defense can completely lock down the elevator.

    Attackers need some variable speed at which to reach the balcony. A staircase is an easy suggestion, but something more creative would be nice.

    This way attackers can vary up their strategy on taking balcony, can bait out molotovs/nades and can actually make a push...rather than just being handed to the defenders in a box.

    OBJ 1 - ROOF

    The issue here is once defenders are set up, there is no longer any flank route for the attackers. Defender roof control can cover two of the three lanes that attackers have to push from, within one FOV. Meaning one person can see both attacking lanes on their screen at the same time, while behind relative safety.

    Defenders on roof are able to avoid crossfire from attackers by adjusting their positioning, whereas attackers are always open to at least two points of crossfire; the three points of crossfire being balcony, left roof, right roof.

    High ground is a natural advantage, and an entire defending team is able to position themselves on high ground, with no flanking route from the attackers.

    This also comes down to width of shooting angles. If elevator is locked down, then the defenders have wider angles on the attackers, compound with high ground and low cover for attackers and you get a meat-grinder.

    Better access to balcony for attackers would help this, tbh I'd prefer to see a decent change to balcony while leaving roof relatively as is. Providing attackers with a proper flank route would make this more like the 1st obj on chapel.

    Creating more points for arty to hit roof or a nader to bounce nades up there may be another thought.

    TRANSITION

    Tbh, this has always felt like a waste of time. Two decent teams going against each other and it's nothing more than a two spawn wave intermission before the rest of the match actually happens.

    If Obj 1 became much easier for attackers, then I wouldn't mind some kind of event or objective to happen here, but I feel that would require some serious reworking of the layout and perhaps that's not what's being looked for in the thread.

    Basically just a reason why this whole area needs to actually exist other than to prolong the match.

    OBJ 2 (3?) - GAS TUNNEL

    This could be strengthened for attackers, but if it is strengthened then there's needs to be something given to the defenders. Otherwise this objective is going to become too attacker biased.

    Something simple might be just making the railing facing the plant area a solid object rather than just a railing. Would give a better platform for the attackers to assault the plant area from.

    Possibly open up the viewing area and give additional cover on the left (as attacker looking at plant area). Since right now, an attacker is always going to strafe back to their right since that's their only area of cover.

    Though I don't think I'd make the railing solid AND add cover. Just ideas.

    OBJ 2 (Is it 3?) - 'GLORY HOLE'

    If the gas tunnel is strengthened for attackers, then I believe this needs to be cut off from attackers being able to snipe/arty/laser all the way back from their spawn.

    Currently I would say Obj 2 is defender biased, at least until a plant happens. Once a plant goes down, then it's actually fairly difficult for defenders to recover.

    Perhaps remove this hole altogether and combine it with the gas tunnel and really widen the viewing area from the tunnel or have multiple points of viewing (aka shooting).

    But then again, that may make shutting the doors from gen room even more important.

    Anyways, just my thoughts on it since I haven't seen anyone from the competitive side put up anything.

    Happy fragging,
    Wolven

  • qazmlpokqazmlpok Posts: 1

    As others have said, the balcony needs fixing. I'd say just make it impossible to jump there from the roof. I don't think anything else needs to be done for that.

    I personally disagree on the airsupport complaint. Arty, at least, is perfectly fine. Underground is his worst map, but he's still fairly strong, and does gain some element of surprise for the areas where air support does work. This includes all 3 objectives, including the escalators areas. I don't use skyhammer or kira as much, so I can't really speak for them. Widening some of the sky areas might make it easier for skyhammer to call in a strike, at least.

    The only issue I have with the gas tunnel approach is that it's possible for the defenders to trickjump through there and flank the attackers. It's difficult and I can't do it, but I have seen it done - if someone on defense is capable of this, then it's usually detrimental to enable the tunnel, but there's no good way to turn it off once it's on.

    (Yes, I'm aware removing that jump lowers the skill ceiling for the map. But it's kinda ridiculous to have a potentially detrimental secondary objective)

    An actual objective for controlling the escalators would be nice. I envision it as something like the terminal spawn, but a) over a wider area (i.e. anyone past the elevator or so, or anywhere on the final level, counts as capturing it) and b) unable to be recaptured. The latter is to make it into an inevitability, and hopefully not disrupt balance too much. I feel the map is balanced overall, if rocky, so making a new capturable point too easy to contest would make things too easy for defenders.

    Alternatively, the 1st objective could be turned back into a hacking objective, like I've seen on Alpha videos. There's too many c4 objectives as it is, so it'd be an interesting change of pace.

    Please make the c4 objectives give bonus game mode xp. Right now, attackers can get 2000 xp for primary objectives, since there's only 2 real objectives. Other maps like Terminal give 3000, simply because there's more stuff to destroy. I can't imagine a capturable point being worth a full 1200 if it is added, so even if it is the existing c4s should be worth 1250 each, at least. This is a super minor change but it'd be really helpful.

    Also, change the "medbay" back to "pump controls". Or at least give an explanation on why this thing is important, and why it clears the lower areas.

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