The Forgotten Mercs

When we think of our Dirty Bomb there are certain mercs that come to our mind.
Maybe our main, good mercs, bad mercs or interesting ones that we will think of.
Everybody knows the meme machine rhino, the always annoying proxy or the meta Sawbonez for ranked. But sometimes I really have to remind myself that some mercs actually exist in DB. It's not the fact that they don't have a rememberable character or a bad concept it's just that you see them pretty rarely or they are just completely overshadowed by other ladies or gentleman in their category but aren't that bad either.
My prime example for this would be Kira, Redeye or Bushwhacker, again they aren't good enough for them to be a part of a constant meta but they aren't bad enough to keep them in focus for rework ideas or buffs.
Maybe that's just me but everytime I see a Redeye for example he is either a clutch god that nails double headshots across the map or he is just a new player that has no idea how the googles work, same for Kira or Bushwhacker.
Am just blind and can't see the massive pool of Kira mains or are some mercs that rare of a sight in general. Just wanting to ask if you guys maybe noticed something similar.

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Comments

  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 2,096

    I dont see Turtle often.

    Roses are red.
    Violets are blue.
    Sparps is bae.
    Thunder bangs you too.
  • WintergreenWintergreen Posts: 575

    I see more people playing Rhino and Phantom just to dick around and troll than I do people playing Thunder seriously. So yeah, you're not the only who feels that way. Some mercs are borderline extinct and others just don't stand out in memory. Kira doesn't stand out to me at all. Maybe it's because the whole Japanese cliché, nerdy and cutesy personalities bore me. Over used and generic. Another one that goes pretty unnoticed is Aura. She's there, and she's a force, but I seem to forget about it by the time I'm in the next lobby. Probably just too much exposure. I've seen so much of her that I overlook her when thinking of mercs lol.

  • frostyvampirefrostyvampire Posts: 1,145

    Redeye + buff = me uninstalling the game.
    Redeye is far from needing a buff. The reason you don't see him often is because he isn't fun to play.
    But Redeye is a bad choice for beginners since he does require a bit of aim and his smokes can harm your team if you don't throw them carefully, and he is a bad choice for veterans because he is overpowered and it's not fun to just hide behind your smokes all the time.
    With a bit of rework he can be made fun and balanced (at his current state he is OP, just boring to play). You can argue Nader is also OP but her playstyle is not as boring and she is a good choice for beginners too which is why you see her more often.

    I see Kira pretty often, no idea what you are talking about. She is probably one of the most balanced mercs in the game.

    The only buff Bushwhacker needs is his turrets to face towards him rather than away from him when you place them. But other than that I think he is fine.


    The mercs that I don't see often are Rhino, Phantom, Thunder and Aimee.
    Rhino is just a meme.
    Phantom needs a rework again, make him a true recon with a spotting ability and don't make him as loud as my dad's snoring.
    Thunder would be fun again if they brought back his EMP
    Aimee just needs a small buff to her FEL-IX, especially that weapon switch bug that needs hotfixing ASAP. And I think that SNITCH displaying more info than other spotting abilities would be a nice addition too (displaying enemy health, name and an icon of what merc they are when spotted, it's a camera after all) but the main problem is just the FEL-IX weapon switch glitch

  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 111

    Redeye+buff= sad Vassilli main
    Grandeur+rework= everybody happy :smile:

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,839

    @Wintergreen said:
    I see more people playing Rhino and Phantom just to dick around and troll than I do people playing Thunder seriously. So yeah, you're not the only who feels that way. Some mercs are borderline extinct and others just don't stand out in memory. Kira doesn't stand out to me at all. Maybe it's because the whole Japanese cliché, nerdy and cutesy personalities bore me. Over used and generic. Another one that goes pretty unnoticed is Aura. She's there, and she's a force, but I seem to forget about it by the time I'm in the next lobby. Probably just too much exposure. I've seen so much of her that I overlook her when thinking of mercs lol.

    in what other FPS is there a japanese cute nerd that has passion in cold war technology and satellites?

    核P-MODEL-白く巨大で
                                                                    
  • @Wintergreen said:
    I see more people playing Rhino and Phantom just to dick around and troll than I do people playing Thunder seriously. So yeah, you're not the only who feels that way. Some mercs are borderline extinct and others just don't stand out in memory. Kira doesn't stand out to me at all. Maybe it's because the whole Japanese cliché, nerdy and cutesy personalities bore me. Over used and generic. Another one that goes pretty unnoticed is Aura. She's there, and she's a force, but I seem to forget about it by the time I'm in the next lobby. Probably just too much exposure. I've seen so much of her that I overlook her when thinking of mercs lol.

    I only use Thunder when assaulting on Underground. It's fun to toss flashbangs down every now and then from the ledge into the medbay and steal teammates kills B)

  • GuziolGuziol Posts: 324
    edited January 3

    Skyhammer. Recent buff was neat but you can just see that he is of old design. He could use some bigger update to breathe some life and freshness into him.

  • LifeupOmegaLifeupOmega Posts: 2,028

    Yeah, gonna say Skyhammer. Most people will run Arty or another lower cooldown merc now due to the flexibility it provides.

    Reminder that it's always okay to vote kick a sniper, no matter how well they're doing.
  • The rarest merc I have seen is Sawbonez and Redeye

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 1,958
    edited January 9

    @c4Te said:
    The least played Mercs at the moment are Aimee, Thunder and Redeye.

    We are looking into that, reading feedback, checking statistics and figure out solutions that we could apply in the future.

    The most important part for that is that we stay true to the character and make sure that the it`s fun to play and not frustrating to play against.

    Problem with aimee in my opinion is she isnt as efective as vasili and redeye smoke is more of a pain in the ass then help . As for aimee her snitch has to be in sight of the merc which means its easily targeted and cant detect through walls. Where as a well placed heart beat sensor can give the team an advantage. I often throw in corners over tunnels or on top of buildings where cant be hit and it almost always helps out the team with sneak atacks as for redey his ir googles dont last long enough and his smoke jist blocks team mates view the smoke is just usefull to cover engi from enemy eyes

    Think if u rework snitch to something more usefull id use her more but as of right now of the 3 snipers vasili is the most usefull

    But i do find a heartbeat in the middle of smoke usefull for spray and pray on ememy mercs

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • MuddyGrenadeMuddyGrenade Posts: 150

    Seems like people would rather use the MOA over anything Aimee has.
    Seems like most people feel bad when they play Thunder, so they don't play him just out of respect for the human beings on the other side of their screens.
    Redeye is just hard to play properly.

  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 111

    How about giving Thunder his EMP back. Remove the stun and making the blinding stronger or at least more practical. You can literally throw it at someone's face and still be killed by him instantly because he can technically still fight. Give the conc more of a team support role because as of right now it's just outclassed by the Pinaple in every situation. Like why would you choose a grenade that only stuns enemys for a very short time and still have to kill them manually with your gun over a grenade that will do all the killing foryou and is even cookable and more reliable.
    As for Redeye: just give him his decent arsenal back (not just in a way of a straight buff just look at someone Grandeur posts to get some ideas for some neat changes) and as much as I hate to admit that a Vassilli main is right for once the suggestion of @frostyvampire with the idea of making his eye glow in the smoke could be something that would give more space to maybe buff the smoke along with it and improve the practicality of the googles.
    Since I don't play Aimee that much I won't talk about her since I would be wrong anyway.

    Sincerely a former Redeye and Thunder fan

  • LifeupOmegaLifeupOmega Posts: 2,028

    @c4Te said:
    The least played Mercs at the moment are Aimee, Thunder and Redeye.

    We are looking into that, reading feedback, checking statistics and figure out solutions that we could apply in the future.

    The most important part for that is that we stay true to the character and make sure that it`s fun to play and not frustrating to play against.

    Shame then, cause any buffs to Aimee or Redeye will lead an already frustrating to fight merc to be even more frustrating.

    Reminder that it's always okay to vote kick a sniper, no matter how well they're doing.
  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,839

    maybe...

    we give aimee snitch a cloak like phantom

    核P-MODEL-白く巨大で
                                                                    
  • c4Tec4Te Posts: 15Developer

    @Da_Mummy said:
    How about giving Thunder his EMP back. Remove the stun and making the blinding stronger or at least more practical. You can literally throw it at someone's face and still be killed by him instantly because he can technically still fight. Give the conc more of a team support role because as of right now it's just outclassed by the Pinaple in every situation. Like why would you choose a grenade that only stuns enemys for a very short time and still have to kill them manually with your gun over a grenade that will do all the killing foryou and is even cookable and more reliable.

    You are not that far away from what we thought about. An idea was to really put Thunder into the defensive tank direction by removing his grenade and give him some kind of an EMP deployable.

    This would help defending choke points and it fits with having someone with a bomb defuse armour. It`s just an idea but we know that his current grenade is simply frustrating to play against and boring to play.

  • In regard to Thunder, reason i dislike using this merc is that his ability always blinds me as much as the enemy even if i throw it across map it blinds me like its thrown inches infront of me . Giving him a second ability to draw down a welding mask or similar to prevent this would help , similar to how redeye has the smoke and spotting seperated.

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 1,958

    @c4Te said:

    @Da_Mummy said:
    How about giving Thunder his EMP back. Remove the stun and making the blinding stronger or at least more practical. You can literally throw it at someone's face and still be killed by him instantly because he can technically still fight. Give the conc more of a team support role because as of right now it's just outclassed by the Pinaple in every situation. Like why would you choose a grenade that only stuns enemys for a very short time and still have to kill them manually with your gun over a grenade that will do all the killing foryou and is even cookable and more reliable.

    You are not that far away from what we thought about. An idea was to really put Thunder into the defensive tank direction by removing his grenade and give him some kind of an EMP deployable.

    This would help defending choke points and it fits with having someone with a bomb defuse armour. It`s just an idea but we know that his current grenade is simply frustrating to play against and boring to play.

    So of thunder has bomb defusing armor why not make him a c4 defusing specialist???

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • c4Tec4Te Posts: 15Developer

    @Mc1412013 said:

    @c4Te said:

    @Da_Mummy said:
    How about giving Thunder his EMP back. Remove the stun and making the blinding stronger or at least more practical. You can literally throw it at someone's face and still be killed by him instantly because he can technically still fight. Give the conc more of a team support role because as of right now it's just outclassed by the Pinaple in every situation. Like why would you choose a grenade that only stuns enemys for a very short time and still have to kill them manually with your gun over a grenade that will do all the killing foryou and is even cookable and more reliable.

    You are not that far away from what we thought about. An idea was to really put Thunder into the defensive tank direction by removing his grenade and give him some kind of an EMP deployable.

    This would help defending choke points and it fits with having someone with a bomb defuse armour. It`s just an idea but we know that his current grenade is simply frustrating to play against and boring to play.

    So of thunder has bomb defusing armor why not make him a c4 defusing specialist???

    That could be a fun idea. If you have more ideas keep them coming. We will definitely check them. :)

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 1,958
    edited January 10

    @c4Te said:

    @Mc1412013 said:

    @c4Te said:

    @Da_Mummy said:
    How about giving Thunder his EMP back. Remove the stun and making the blinding stronger or at least more practical. You can literally throw it at someone's face and still be killed by him instantly because he can technically still fight. Give the conc more of a team support role because as of right now it's just outclassed by the Pinaple in every situation. Like why would you choose a grenade that only stuns enemys for a very short time and still have to kill them manually with your gun over a grenade that will do all the killing foryou and is even cookable and more reliable.

    You are not that far away from what we thought about. An idea was to really put Thunder into the defensive tank direction by removing his grenade and give him some kind of an EMP deployable.

    This would help defending choke points and it fits with having someone with a bomb defuse armour. It`s just an idea but we know that his current grenade is simply frustrating to play against and boring to play.

    So of thunder has bomb defusing armor why not make him a c4 defusing specialist???

    That could be a fun idea. If you have more ideas keep them coming. We will definitely check them. :)

    A c4 specailist but instead of plyers or blow torch he has actual bomb defusal tools like a swiss army knife

    Only issue i have is if u take away his concusion granade what justifies calling him thunder

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,291Special Editor

    My guess is Either Redeye or Aimee are least played. They're likely not as picked by beginners, and even during Redeye free rotation there weren't as many clouds as I remember. It doesn't help that Redeye cloud is just dumb as a skill.

    Also, a good Aimee is the most frightening thing I've ever seen in DB. Be careful if you choose to balance her SD.

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • Begin2018Begin2018 Posts: 79
    edited January 10

    @c4Te said : and not frustrating to play against.

    Javelin, Fantom and good Vassili/Aimee are very frustrating to play against!

  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 128
    edited January 11

    An idea for a Thunder redesign:

    The ZEUS: a lightning gun weapon that chains to all enemy targets in an AoE of the initial target. An effective way to clear rooms with lots of enemies out of LoS or lots of deployables.
    Could work like a chaining version of Quake lightning gun, or more like Sparks' gun or anything in between.

    Maybe it could have a slight cc component.

    Post edited by woodchip on
  • @c4Te said:

    @Da_Mummy said:
    How about giving Thunder his EMP back. Remove the stun and making the blinding stronger or at least more practical. You can literally throw it at someone's face and still be killed by him instantly because he can technically still fight. Give the conc more of a team support role because as of right now it's just outclassed by the Pinaple in every situation. Like why would you choose a grenade that only stuns enemys for a very short time and still have to kill them manually with your gun over a grenade that will do all the killing foryou and is even cookable and more reliable.

    You are not that far away from what we thought about. An idea was to really put Thunder into the defensive tank direction by removing his grenade and give him some kind of an EMP deployable.

    This would help defending choke points and it fits with having someone with a bomb defuse armour. It`s just an idea but we know that his current grenade is simply frustrating to play against and boring to play.

    Ok so running with the defensive tank idea. I like the idea of an EMP deployable but unfortunately, it's kinda useless because we already have Guardian who does close enough to the same thing (as defense) and is more effective at protecting. To make him a defensive tank I'd suggest a total rework to give him two abilities:
    1. Armor Packs - gives teammates a small amount of extra HP, say about 20. This HP would be non recoverable once depleted so it can't be gained back by health stations or med packs.
    2. Deployable Accelerator - sticking with the "thunder" theme, an AOE deployable that supercharges friendly deployables within it's range with extra power for a limited time. Healing stations give more health, ammo stations give more ammo, Turtle's shield has higher health, Guardian's sky-shield lasts longer, Bushwhacker's turret does more damage, etc.

    These two things would help define the meta more in defense as currently the game is highly focused on offense ability and less on defense. The best defense really is a good offense in this game. A Thunder re-work on these lines would place him fairly strongly in the meta and re-move the entirety of what makes him frustrating to play against currently.

    Too glam to give a damn.
    In game as Seebetterfromadistance.

  • Mr-PenguinMr-Penguin Posts: 2,243

    @hawkeyeguy99 said:

    Ok so running with the defensive tank idea. I like the idea of an EMP deployable but unfortunately, it's kinda useless because we already have Guardian who does close enough to the same thing (as defense) and is more effective at protecting. To make him a defensive tank I'd suggest a total rework to give him two abilities:
    1. Armor Packs - gives teammates a small amount of extra HP, say about 20. This HP would be non recoverable once depleted so it can't be gained back by health stations or med packs.
    2. Deployable Accelerator - sticking with the "thunder" theme, an AOE deployable that supercharges friendly deployables within it's range with extra power for a limited time. Healing stations give more health, ammo stations give more ammo, Turtle's shield has higher health, Guardian's sky-shield lasts longer, Bushwhacker's turret does more damage, etc.

    These two things would help define the meta more in defense as currently the game is highly focused on offense ability and less on defense. The best defense really is a good offense in this game. A Thunder re-work on these lines would place him fairly strongly in the meta and re-move the entirety of what makes him frustrating to play against currently.

    Time for my usual rant about armor packs, "temporary" HP increasing abilities, HP/movespeed ratio screwups andhitbox size screwups.

    I personally don't believe that you can have any "throw and forget" type armor abilities without a large drawback- reduction in movement speed. Adding 20 HP over a merc's usual HP gives them a large advantage in a 1v1 gunfight with a merc that has the same base HP. If the armored merc retains their usual movespeed, that increases the advantage even further (I'm not even gonna mention hitbox size/HP at this point).

    Perhaps I'm overexaggerating the importance of 20 extra HP (or maybe it's my time in the Merc Suggestions section that drove me crazy...), but armor abilities should have a downside of movement speed reduction to be balanced. That doesn't solve the hitbox issue, but at least it fixes the movespeed/HP ratio problem.

    Deployable Accelerator seems pretty situational to me. All other abilities in the game function by themselves pretty well, but this depends entirely upon other deployables to function at all*. Seems useful enough when your team has deployables though.

    *I suppose you could say the same with the Skyshield and air support, but there are a lot more mercs with projectiles and fire support than there are with deployables.

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    IGN/Steam Profile Mr. Penguin
    Have an idea for a new merc? Then head on over to my Mercenary Suggestion Form and go post it!
  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 128
    edited January 11

    Please consider redesigning Redeye before you buff him. He is pretty anti-fun even if played correctly and his ability can also be uniquely frustrating for his allies if played wrong.

    Post edited by woodchip on
  • Da_MummyDa_Mummy Posts: 111

    @c4Te said:
    You are not that far away from what we thought about. An idea was to really put Thunder into the defensive tank direction by removing his grenade and give him some kind of an EMP deployable.

    This would help defending choke points and it fits with having someone with a bomb defuse armour. It`s just an idea but we know that his current grenade is simply frustrating to play against and boring to play.

    Alright so I thought about it once again.
    Th name Thunder was mainly funny because his Grenade acted as the lighting and the sound of his gun as the Thunder and since I love those names most mercs have in relation to their ability I took some inspiration from good old Rainbow Six.
    Everybody who is familiar with the German Soldier Blitz might know what I am going for but for those who don't: Blitz wields a Shield that has three rows of flashbang lights but instead of a shield I though about his little flashlight on his head or his armor in general.
    The most frustrating thing about Thunders Grenade was that it was unavoidable unpredictable and very wonky to play so most Thunder players just used it as a tool to make people mad without accomplishing anything.
    Concept: Lighting armour -> an armor that will emit a strong EMP flash that will blind enemies nearby and disable all deployables in an AoE style BUT with a little audible charge that will force enemies to look away from Thunder or go get cover. The audio sign will give players a chance to react and in my experience at least AoEs are easier to predict and a tiny circle on the ground would make it also more calculatable.
    Just throwing this out as an idea.

  • I like playing Thunder. I like chucking the flash and immediately run in and exploit the sheer firepower of the 85 rounds machine gun gunning down the stunned enemies pretending to be a water hose extinguishing fire. Best if coupled with a competent Phoenix, it's so damn fun and rewarding. Thunder with Stark is counterproductive and the AK doesn't fit the balls to the wall approach that Thunder encourages.
    If Thunder is frustrating to play against and boring to play then what about Fragger?
    Thunder is not as competitive as him, that's the general consensous and I get it. But I don't think that any current assault merc can dethrone Fragger just as no medic can dethrone Sawbonez for being the best pocket.

    It seems to me that the competitive scene is pretty Fragger-centric, but I don't play competitive so I can't say for sure.

    Aimee is similar to Thunder: compared to Vassili she has little HP and the way the SNITCH works mean that classical sniping isn't her thing. She is closer range oriented but again 90 HP and Grandeur/PDP + pistols in a evenly skilled 1v1 against an automatic rifle/SMG equals losing it.
    So SNITCH must be used thoughtfully to even out the odds and still requires support from the team.

    Basically both of these mercs can't single-pick as effectively as their cousins, have harder to use gadgets and have generally a harder time in a 1v1 (Thunder due to hitbox size and Aimee for secondaries and HP).

    Redeye is strong. Misunderstood maybe, but strong.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • c4Tec4Te Posts: 15Developer

    @spectre_nc said:
    Redeye is strong. Misunderstood maybe, but strong.

    I love that. He really is misunderstood because Redeye is quite strong. The problem with him is that he is simply not fun to play for a lot of people and what is worse frustrating to play against.

    That`s why we are looking into it and try to figure out how we solve this issue without sacrificing his identity. I will definitely share more information once we have a better idea of what he should be.

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