Is Phantom cursed to be useless?

You raise a good point and we were looking into that some days ago.
We might update him in the future and give him the possibility to "spot" disabled deployables for his team. This ability would help Phantom to have a bigger impact on the game because team mates would always know which deployables are disabled. Makes communication in non competitive matches easier.

From what I understand and assume, his buff will only give deployable spotting to his EMP field...

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Comments

  • @TheStrangerous said:
    From what I understand and assume, his buff will only give deployable spotting to his EMP field...

    Well, disabling deployables already kinda gives away his position, I don't see why couldn't he spot players as well.

    I'm more concerned about how would spotting (highlighting a triangle on) deployables tell the team_ what _deployables are disabled? Would it display the 3D model through walls instead?

    That feature would be really helpful on other spotting mechanics as well (especially considering that Redeye barely can see deployables in IR vision)

  • @ThunderZsolt said:

    @TheStrangerous said:
    From what I understand and assume, his buff will only give deployable spotting to his EMP field...

    Well, disabling deployables already kinda gives away his position, I don't see why couldn't he spot players as well.

    I'm more concerned about how would spotting (highlighting a triangle on) deployables tell the team_ what _deployables are disabled? Would it display the 3D model through walls instead?

    That feature would be really helpful on other spotting mechanics as well (especially considering that Redeye barely can see deployables in IR vision)

    Phantom should've been full recon, but instead it's Assault/Recon hybrid.

    Cloak without spotting ability, is like Redeye's smoke grenade without IR googles.
    But spotting ability seems to be out of the question, cause he's a hybrid, thus they be pushin' this EMP ability further (I assume EMP ability is assault ability, since Thunder had one on his conc)...

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • XSheepieXXSheepieX Posts: 84
    edited November 2017

    Phantom with a spotting ability would be the most laughable balance change I can imagine for DB.

    It wouldn't change anything about the way he plays and it would still leave him useless when compared to all the other Recons. Like honestly, just choose Vasili.

    Phantom is probably doomed to be useless forever because the changes that need to happen nobody wants and the changes that people suggest wouldn't fix anything even if they were implemented.

    Spotting deployables is of no use when there are cards with bomb squad. Besides what is Phantom going to do with this information? Get the drop on some pesky aura station? It doesn't change the fact that good players will have no trouble dispatching a Phantom due to all of them having better ability's and/or weapons/effective health pools.

    Phantom over-relies on the teammates to be better than he is, and get stuff done because he hasn't got tools to get anything useful done.

    Post edited by XSheepieX on
  • I'm starting to believe SD is toying with us.
    That, or he's intentionally THE FOOL of DB mercs.

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • l2cl2c Posts: 103

    Well, if only disabled deployables get spotted, maybe teammates would finally actually shoot at disabled shields/auras/etc D:

  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,806

    Only because SD refuses to use this Beta state as an opportunity to try wild experiments they can revert a week later.

    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


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  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 2,303

    Unlike 99% of the playerbase I like Phantom the way he is.

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  • @Lord_Coctus said:
    Unlike 99% of the playerbase I like Phantom the way he is.

    I wouldn't be opposed to some tweaks, but I get where you're coming from. I'm one of the few people that doesn't subscribe to the notion that he's terrible or useless. He's a killing machine with an ability that can be utilized well on maps like Terminal and Underground. I regularly get 60+ kills when I play him. He's not awful; he has a niche role. The same can be said for snipers, Nader, Turtle, and so on. Everyone else seems to disagree so I'll respect that, though. If the majority of people believe he needs some buffs then by all means, buff him. I'm just not seeing it.

  • You see, phantom definitely isn't unplayable underpowered, more so outclassed. Similar to the smg-9 , they can both get the job done when it calls for it, but other classes such as fragger, nader, stoker can do his job much more easily without nearly as much risk. Now, phantom COULD be buffed in terms of just tweaking the number we currently have, and I have no doubt that would make him considerably stronger. In actuality, phantom would need something else in order to outclass these characters at their job in some regard, and if a separation of the emp from the cloak is off the table, then this will be extremely difficult.

    I have been toying with the idea that deployables effected by the emp effect have a damage multiplier on them, effectively making them 1 hp, thus making it easier for phantom to take out camps, and easier to kill an aura and her station one after another. This coupled with a nerf to aura that restricts her cooldown as long as the health station is up could work very nicely for our katana-wielding weaboo master.

  • XSheepieXXSheepieX Posts: 84
    edited November 2017

    Just for the record. I don't see Phantom as useless. I just see him as unfinished. He is okay in good hands but it is always clear that he isn't on the same level as probably all the other mercs. Playing against people your own skill level is always more difficult than it should be when playing Phantom I feel like this is because he is incomplete. His ability would compliment another ability well or it would work well if he had powerful weaponry. I like how Phantom plays atm but for all the flanking you can do, the rewards aren't worth the effort imo unless you enjoy playing him.

    Outclassed imo is a perfect description of my feeling towards him. I honestly see Phantom as a flanker and someone who a locks down areas with unpredictability and constant damage. Atm Phantom doesn't have the tools to do this. I feel like seperation the cloak and EMp wouldn't be good as Phantom would lose counterplay and become irritating again without him being much more useful.

    I feel like Phantom should have a shorter cooldown on the cloak and that he should be able to use a weapon such as a thrown weapon or snitch to use while cloaked so he can constantly be dealing damaging. Atm while cloaked Phantom can't do much other than wait. I also think it might be useful if the team was notified when Phantom disables something though that not the sort of thing that will fix him though all of that together might make him useful. I think his largest issues are his inability to get kills as easily as other recons and the difficulty that people have coordinating with Phantom. I feel like those changes would finish Phantom.

    Though at this point I feel like Phantom will never be actually viable as a recon. Depends...

  • Still feel like more people should take a lesson from shinywindows phantom play style. Instead of running around like an idiot with a sword, try actually using his abilities to play objectively

  • @Bluesquid0630 said:
    Still feel like more people should take a lesson from shinywindows phantom play style. Instead of running around like an idiot with a sword, try actually using his abilities to play objectively

    I blame TF2 Spy and Demoknight fans for spreading such nonsense.

    Dirty Bomb = Lawbreakers 2.0 Electric Boogaloo

  • XSheepieXXSheepieX Posts: 84
    edited December 2017

    Phantom has a very odd playstyle that is difficult to learn.

    You have to be constantly shifting your playstyle depending on the situation you are in. The merc is heavily dependent on being able to read the situation and being able to make quick decisions based on that situation so that you can exploit it as best as possible. You need a lot of gamesense and experience so that you can predict player movements.

    Shinywindow just looks like a really good player in general rather than someone who is really good at Phantom. Not that there is nothing to learn from them. It takes some time to figure out all the little tricks and to learn how to always be one step ahead of your opponent as Phantom.

    Most people who play Phantom don't stick with him long enough to learn all the finer details so it doesn't surprise me that you get a lot of Phantom players who aren't that good.

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