Should Hybrid Mercs (Phantom, Javelin, Guardian) have their own group?

TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,636
edited November 3 in Mercenary Discussion

Of course that would mean 4 Medics/Engies/Assaults/Fire Support + 3 Snipers + 3 Hybrids, and only 2 new mercs would fill the perfect 24 merc number.

Anyways, there's constant label on how Guardian doesn't heal, Javelin doesn't give much ammo and Phantom doesn't spot. Thus not fitting their respective groups and being pale, compared to other merc.

Well, maybe it's time to make a special group? Heck, I'd be fine with that, no need to restrict your mercs to just 5 groups.

Should Hybrid Mercs (Phantom, Javelin, Guardian) have their own group? 19 votes

Yes, they don't fit in their current group.
31%
TheStrangerousFishRollsTheFpsPro27asdfqwop_LitingCombatMist 6 votes
No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.
52%
LifeupOmegaTerminal_6GuziolPtilouiinscrutableShowfrostyvampireGatoCommodoreMuddyGrenadeWintergreenXSheepieX 10 votes
Other idea/No idea.
15%
JJMAJRLord_CoctusTacticalMech 3 votes

PC master race and console peasant jokes were never funny.
Instead, there's two kinds of people: Those who don't get fooled by corporations and those who are their corporate slaves.

Comments

  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 106
    edited November 3

    Hybrid mercs are just a bad idea. Mercs that can't independently fill their stated role feel bad. Not only is it less fun for the hybrid who can't really do X, it's less fun for the teammate the hybrid needs to have that also does X.

    Filling out the role your team is missing is a core part of what makes class based games fun. Javelin and Guardian lack that particular funness element. Javelin makes up for it by being horrendously overpowered, and Guardian is noticeably unpopular (despite being a very fun combat merc).

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,514
    edited November 7
    No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.

    @woodchip said:
    Hybrid mercs are just a bad idea. Mercs that can't independently fill their stated role feel bad. Not only is it less fun for the hybrid who can't really do X, it's less fun for the teammate the hybrid needs to have that also does X.

    Filling out the role your team is missing is a core part of what makes class based games fun. Javelin and Guardian lack that particular funness element. Javelin makes up for it by being horrendously overpowered, and Guardian is noticeably unpopular (despite being a very fun combat merc).

    javelin guardian is dedicated carry merc

    somewhat like sparks but cant one hit kill.

    Post edited by GatoCommodore on
    Metro Area -- Miura                                                                  
  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 1,987
    Other idea/No idea.

    Does it matter if they make a new class?

    My aim is as great as a beautiful Proxy.

    Neither of the two exist.
  • JJMAJRJJMAJR Posts: 1,065
    edited November 4
    Other idea/No idea.

    I would like to define merc superclasses in the following terms:

    Medic - heals OR revives (things that make humans last longer)
    Fire Support - ammo OR makes abilities last longer (abilities oft use "ammo")
    Recon - gives information (phantom fails at this)
    Engineer - complements defensive kit with offensive passive (or inversely an offensive kit with a defensive passive) (biased idealism)
    Assault - high physical stats but no support ability

    Hybrids would be combinations of support abilities, like a healer/ammo provider for example.

  • No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.

    I'd rather have these "hybrid mercs" just fit their actual roles, rather than turn them into special snowflakes.

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,316

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @woodchip said:
    Hybrid mercs are just a bad idea. Mercs that can't independently fill their stated role feel bad. Not only is it less fun for the hybrid who can't really do X, it's less fun for the teammate the hybrid needs to have that also does X.

    Filling out the role your team is missing is a core part of what makes class based games fun. Javelin and Guardian lack that particular funness element. Javelin makes up for it by being horrendously overpowered, and Guardian is noticeably unpopular (despite being a very fun combat merc).

    javelin is dedicated carry merc

    somewhat like sparks but cant one hit kill.

    Sparks can 1 hit kill if you have great aim :p

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,514
    No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @woodchip said:
    Hybrid mercs are just a bad idea. Mercs that can't independently fill their stated role feel bad. Not only is it less fun for the hybrid who can't really do X, it's less fun for the teammate the hybrid needs to have that also does X.

    Filling out the role your team is missing is a core part of what makes class based games fun. Javelin and Guardian lack that particular funness element. Javelin makes up for it by being horrendously overpowered, and Guardian is noticeably unpopular (despite being a very fun combat merc).

    javelin is dedicated carry merc

    somewhat like sparks but cant one hit kill.

    Sparks can 1 hit kill if you have great aim :p

    exactly my point

    Metro Area -- Miura                                                                  
  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,316
    edited November 7

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @woodchip said:
    Hybrid mercs are just a bad idea. Mercs that can't independently fill their stated role feel bad. Not only is it less fun for the hybrid who can't really do X, it's less fun for the teammate the hybrid needs to have that also does X.

    Filling out the role your team is missing is a core part of what makes class based games fun. Javelin and Guardian lack that particular funness element. Javelin makes up for it by being horrendously overpowered, and Guardian is noticeably unpopular (despite being a very fun combat merc).

    javelin is dedicated carry merc

    somewhat like sparks but cant one hit kill.

    Sparks can 1 hit kill if you have great aim :p

    exactly my point

    Oh...I just realized I misread your post >.<

    I was thinking you were saying Sparks couldn't really 1 hit like Jav can with her rocket.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,514
    edited November 7
    No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @woodchip said:
    Hybrid mercs are just a bad idea. Mercs that can't independently fill their stated role feel bad. Not only is it less fun for the hybrid who can't really do X, it's less fun for the teammate the hybrid needs to have that also does X.

    Filling out the role your team is missing is a core part of what makes class based games fun. Javelin and Guardian lack that particular funness element. Javelin makes up for it by being horrendously overpowered, and Guardian is noticeably unpopular (despite being a very fun combat merc).

    javelin is dedicated carry merc

    somewhat like sparks but cant one hit kill.

    Sparks can 1 hit kill if you have great aim :p

    exactly my point

    Oh...I just realized I misread your post >.<

    I was thinking you were saying Sparks couldn't really 1 hit like Jav can with her rocket.

    my bad, i should have used , to separate the sentence so people dont get confused.

    Metro Area -- Miura                                                                  
  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,316

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @Sorotia said:

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @woodchip said:
    Hybrid mercs are just a bad idea. Mercs that can't independently fill their stated role feel bad. Not only is it less fun for the hybrid who can't really do X, it's less fun for the teammate the hybrid needs to have that also does X.

    Filling out the role your team is missing is a core part of what makes class based games fun. Javelin and Guardian lack that particular funness element. Javelin makes up for it by being horrendously overpowered, and Guardian is noticeably unpopular (despite being a very fun combat merc).

    javelin is dedicated carry merc

    somewhat like sparks but cant one hit kill.

    Sparks can 1 hit kill if you have great aim :p

    exactly my point

    Oh...I just realized I misread your post >.<

    I was thinking you were saying Sparks couldn't really 1 hit like Jav can with her rocket.

    my bad, i should have used , to separate the sentence so people dont get confused.

    Nah it's my fault...I just read it wrong and my brain just assumed you were talking about the rocket and not their overall play.

    I have the rocket on the mind since they nerfed it...

  • XSheepieXXSheepieX Posts: 53
    edited November 7
    No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.

    We don't know if spotting abilities define recons yet. We only have 4. If the 5th recon doesn't spot then I'd say it's just coincidental. (I really hope we don't get another spotting ability)

    Javelin gives ammo so I don't see why she isn't a support.

    Guardian is a little weird but she still heals and her ability is designed to be supportive to the team so... Meh... close enough. I feel like they all fit just they're a little odd. Giving them their own class just seem weird imo.

  • JJMAJRJJMAJR Posts: 1,065
    edited November 8
    Other idea/No idea.

    @XSheepieX said:

    We don't know if spotting abilities define recons yet. We only have 4. If the 5th recon doesn't spot then I'd say it's just coincidental. (I really hope we don't get another spotting ability)

    What is the point of Recons being their own classification if they don't spot?

    Take the other types for example.

    Fire Supports provide ammo.
    Medics provide healing/revives.
    Engineers work on objectives through some passive.
    Assaults don't have abilities that directly help another player do things.

    If Recons aren't defined by an ability that directly helps their team in some way, then they are just an offshoot of assaults. Which is what Phantom is.

  • XSheepieXXSheepieX Posts: 53
    No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.

    I see recons as Mercs that are like glass cannons. High killing potential in certain situations but they struggle in more frontline combat.

    The spotting abilities have always been coincidental to me as they work quite well with the arsenal they have.

    You can't really consider Phantom as an assualt because he doesn't play like any of the other assualts and he isn't supposed to. He fits well into recon imo. I would like to think SD have other ideas for recon Mercs rather than more spotting abilities and I'm sure they do.

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,636
    edited November 8
    Yes, they don't fit in their current group.

    Phantom feels more like saboteur than anything.

    I mean, apart from Thunder's conc grenade once having EMP effect, we don't really have the anti-deployable merc. And Phantom's currently the guinea pig, who has been like that, for over 2 years.

    Still waiting for that teased balance update. It'd be a fresh start for new year.

    PC master race and console peasant jokes were never funny.
    Instead, there's two kinds of people: Those who don't get fooled by corporations and those who are their corporate slaves.

  • frostyvampirefrostyvampire Posts: 1,067
    No, mercs are very versatile, this ain't no rock paper scissors.

    I don't think it will be a good idea to have a new group for them.
    I'd rather just see them reworked a bit so they match their role.

    Phantom is supposed to be a recon. So his invisibility should be reworked and he should receive a spotting ability rather than EMP.

    Guardian is a healer so she needs a healing ability or at least a buff to her revive. Or just make her an engineer

    Javelin actually seems fine. I wouldn't mind a change to her ammo dispenser though. Yes she is strong and can get an easy kill, but Stoker can do the same with his molotov. And I can't say she isn't effective at clearing out an area and taking out the EV

  • Yes, they don't fit in their current group.

    Yes, if anything so they have to make more mercs so there's an even number.

  • Yes, they don't fit in their current group.

    The only hard reason to need a class is looter. I cant think of anything else that requires the class profile and im sure looter will be phased out for gen 3 cards. As such class does not matter.

    Look at league of legends. Once they had over say 20 characters like dirty bomb they had to make hybrids that totally broke the molds or else you just get remakes of the same class over and over. Such as Sky hammer -> arty -> kira -> stoker -> javelin. They all have the same components just in different ways. This is highly limiting to their kits. They all have ammo and and AOE high damage ability. You can see how they progressed to each one. Its only a matter of time until we get some one who can give ammo but has not aoe nuke. Or a merc with a heal and no revive. Or some one with a deployable like an engineer but not have the engineer objective passive or some one with said passive but no deployable. For the game to survive it needs hybrids. Just accept it we cant keep remixing the same pot over and over without it being ok we now have 10 snipers that all have a sniper rifle and a spotter. Do you realize how incredibly boring that would become? Back to my league comparison. You have general roles like mage, support (not all heal some give shields instead or revive), tank, ranged dps, and jungler/assassin. There is a well known class of hybrids called tank mages. They can take way more damage than a mage but they cant insta nuke like a mage but still do more burst than most "classes". The game has tank/support and dps/supports ect ect ect and it works just fine. Dont be so narrow minded to think all mercs in db must have the same recipe. Turtle bent it slightly with a non offensive deploy. Jav hit the most hard with a weak ammo ability. Guardian totally shattered the mold with a support + revive abilities being a medic/support. I welcome the coming hybrids as they will diversify the line ups. It will mean changing what mercs play with which for what purpose but accept it. Gone will be the 5 classes. What happens if they make a merc with the best heal but no revive to pair amazingly well with guardian having the best revive but no heal? Best of both tasks when combined. Its called specializing and thats economics 101 to specialize and then each group can do their 1 task better than trying to generalize.

Sign In or Register to comment.