We need more objective types.

EoxEox FrancePosts: 2,996Moderator
edited October 12 in General Chat

Let's face it, we can't keep planting C4s, delivering milk jugs and escorting EVs over and over again (I'm not counting capture point as it's specific to a secondary objective). At one point, it's going to be fairly stale. When I played during Steam Closed Beta, DB had just 5 maps along with those three objective types : Trainyard, Underground, Terminal, Chapel and Bridge. As of today, we recieved three new maps (Dome, Dockyard and Vault), but the objective types remain the same. DB might become kinda stale if the next 8 maps are going to be the same objective types as well.

This is why I would like to suggest some new objective types that could spice up OBJ/SW games. It's probably too late for castle, but it could be very welcomed for the maps created after this one. I do hope DB won't stop at Castle after all.

IMPORTANT NOTE : I am talking about new objectives for OBJ/SW gamemodes. This thread has nothing to do with new gamemodes !

--- HACKING ---
This objective works a bit like C4 Defuse, but is similar to both attackers and defenders. Hacking takes 16 seconds (8 with engineers) and its progress is always saved. However, it can be undone by the enemy team by the same way and with just 75% of the progression rate (it's going to be 25% slower. engineers still do it faster ofc). The objective is completed if Jackal manages to complete the whole hacking progress bar.

--- OBJECTIVE DESTRUCTION, BUT WITH POWER ARMOR ---
Jackal uses some kind of power armor to destroy the objective. You must escort the player in the armor to the capture zone so he destroys the objective (usually some kind of gate). The armor moves slow (with a fixed speed, no matter who the merc inside it is) and is limited to some kind of shotgun, but gives to its owner a much higher health pool. It also has an abiklity called Mortar that can only be used if you reach the capture zone, and is used in order to blow up the objective. You'll have to use it on the objective until it goes down (shouldn't take more than three shots). Mortar has a CD of 3 seconds. Merc abilities can't be used when using the power armor. If defenders kills the ally wielding the power armor, the objective resets and you have to do the escort all over again. This objective does not require an engineer.

This is all I have for now. I might update this thread if a new idea comes through my mind, or if you guys suggest something really good.

Post edited by Eox on

Comments

  • ThinkItsCloseThinkItsClose Posts: 54
    edited October 11

    Yeah i can see it getting a bit stale later down the line. The castle art work looked promising though. There seemed to be some kind of door in the way of the EV that you have to remove to get into the tower, maybe a new objective, probably not and it's just a mix of EV escort and C4 plant(s).

  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741

    I would say we need a Bongo we need to bash repeatedly to unlock a hidden path, or a control panel you type on to lift you toward a secret booze stash.

    I'm kidding, but honestly I'd like to see more objectives that are rather instant, rather than take 4 seconds to complete.

    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


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  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,763
    edited October 11

    THE TUG OF WAR

    Much like the EV escort, EV is replaced by wagon filled with explosives and can be pushed by BOTH SIDES. When both sides are near the wagon, it stops.

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 1,801

    @TheStrangerous said:
    I don't know how to call it:

    THE NEUTRAL EV ESCORT

    Much like the EV escort, EV is replaced by wagon filled with explosives and can be pushed by BOTH SIDES. When both sides are near the wagon, it stops.

    Like in tf2

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • WintergreenWintergreen Posts: 527

    @TheStrangerous said:
    I don't know how to call it:

    THE NEUTRAL EV ESCORT

    Much like the EV escort, EV is replaced by wagon filled with explosives and can be pushed by BOTH SIDES. When both sides are near the wagon, it stops.

    ahem

    What about constructible spawn beacons that can be destroyed and function like a forward spawn?

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,763
    edited October 11

    @Mc1412013 said:

    @TheStrangerous said:
    I don't know how to call it:

    THE NEUTRAL EV ESCORT

    Much like the EV escort, EV is replaced by wagon filled with explosives and can be pushed by BOTH SIDES. When both sides are near the wagon, it stops.

    Like in tf2

    Yeah, there was a game mode like that, but only on custom map.
    Double payload was an unorganized mess. If there was only 1 payload, which could be pushed by both teams, then'd I'd be interesting symmetrical game mode.

    EDIT: NINJA'D

    @Wintergreen said:
    -SNOP-
    What about constructible spawn beacons that can be destroyed and function like a forward spawn?

    This is a good control point suplement!

    Double edit:

    I found that TF2 custom map!

    What a wasted potential...

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • frostyvampirefrostyvampire Posts: 1,120
    edited October 11

    @Mc1412013 said:

    @TheStrangerous said:
    I don't know how to call it:

    THE NEUTRAL EV ESCORT

    Much like the EV escort, EV is replaced by wagon filled with explosives and can be pushed by BOTH SIDES. When both sides are near the wagon, it stops.

    Like in tf2

    Tf2 has payload race where there are 2 payloads, 1 for each team and the team that wins

    I think he meant just 1 payload that spawns in the middle and team A must push it to team B's spawn and team B has to push it to team A's spawn. The first team to push the payload to the other team's spawn wins. If neither team pushes it until the end and the timer runs out, the team whose spawn is closer to the payload will be the losing team. If the payload is exactly in the middle, it will be a draw.

    So no, it's not like in tf2 (unless I misunderstood the gamemode or there was a secret gamemode in tf2 that I never played)

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,763

    @frostyvampire said:
    So no, it's not like in tf2 (unless I misunderstood the gamemode or there was a secret gamemode in tf2 that I never played)

    The game mode was never made into official TF2 maps, so it was custom made. And yeah, I meant that WASTE custom TF2 map, the tug of war styled payload.

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 1,801

    @frostyvampire said:

    @Mc1412013 said:

    @TheStrangerous said:
    I don't know how to call it:

    THE NEUTRAL EV ESCORT

    Much like the EV escort, EV is replaced by wagon filled with explosives and can be pushed by BOTH SIDES. When both sides are near the wagon, it stops.

    Like in tf2

    Tf2 has payload race where there are 2 payloads, 1 for each team and the team that wins

    I think he meant just 1 payload that spawns in the middle and team A must push it to team B's spawn and team B has to push it to team A's spawn. The first team to push the payload to the other team's spawn wins. If neither team pushes it until the end and the timer runs out, the team whose spawn is closer to the payload will be the losing team. If the payload is exactly in the middle, it will be a draw.

    So no, it's not like in tf2 (unless I misunderstood the gamemode or there was a secret gamemode in tf2 that I never played)

    I dont think i spent more than 30 min playing that game my kids originaly shared my act so they may have played it more

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • STARRYSOCKSTARRYSOCK Posts: 1,230

    I had an idea for something a while ago. Basically an objective that has to be destroyed, but can only be damaged from bullet fire.

    Attackers would continually try to shoot this object (which would have a huge amount of health and be resistant to certain damages, so a rhino couldn't kill it in 30 seconds between spawn waves), while defenders would complete secondary objectives to raise shields that would block it from certain angles (but not all).
    Perhaps defenders could slowly repair it, or it could even regen health on its own very slowly. Another idea I had was as it became more and more damaged, certain aspects of the map would change, like routes and spawns

    Basically the idea behind this, is that everyone would be more directly involved in the objective, with less of a focus on team deathmatch. Engineers would still be required on both sides to raise/lower shields to block or open certain vantage points.

    Lorewise, I guess this could be a map set in Pirin's reactor area. They have the ability to stop projectiles as shown by Guardian, so if the reactor was protected by one of those shields and suspended out of reach of the players to prevent C4, it could work well.

  • I agree completely. Can’t say I have any good options but ffs something else. The secondary’s aren’t really that helpfully, except for vault and xp and the game play is stale even now. I love DB and it is the one game I play but I find myself less and less engaged.

  • frostyvampirefrostyvampire Posts: 1,120

    @TheStrangerous said:

    @frostyvampire said:
    So no, it's not like in tf2 (unless I misunderstood the gamemode or there was a secret gamemode in tf2 that I never played)

    The game mode was never made into official TF2 maps, so it was custom made. And yeah, I meant that WASTE custom TF2 map, the tug of war styled payload.

    2700 hours in tf2 and never even heard about it. Where have I been

  • PtilouiPtiloui Posts: 308

    @Eox said:
    DB had just 4 maps along with those three objective types : Trainyard, Underground, Terminal, Chapel and Bridge.

    So, these are 5 maps :wink:

    @Eox said:
    --- HACKING ---
    This objective works a bit like C4 Defuse, but is similar to both attackers and defenders. Hacking takes 16 seconds (8 with engineers) and its progress is always saved. However, it can be undone by the enemy team by the same way and with just 75% of the progression rate (it's going to be 25% slower. engineers still do it faster ofc). The objective is completed if Jackal manages to complete the whole hacking progress bar.

    The first Trainyard obj in alpha wasn't a hacking objective ? I think this could be great, requiring an active interaction on objective, like we have actually for repairing obj, while teammates cover you. Maybe the future engie merc will be a hacker ? :open_mouth:

    @Eox said:
    --- OBJECTIVE DESTRUCTION, BUT WITH POWER ARMOR ---
    Jackal uses some kind of power armor to destroy the objective. You must escort the player in the armor to the capture zone so he destroys the objective (usually some kind of gate). The armor moves slow (with a fixed speed, no matter who the merc inside it is) and is limited to some kind of shotgun, but gives to its owner a much higher health pool. It also has an abiklity called Mortar that can only be used if you reach the capture zone, and is used in order to blow up the objective. You'll have to use it on the objective until it goes down (shouldn't take more than three shots). Mortar has a CD of 3 seconds. Merc abilities can't be used when using the power armor. If defenders kills the ally wielding the power armor, the objective resets and you have to do the escort all over again. This objective does not require an engineer.

    Without creating a brand new content, this thing could be straight implemented in actual maps : instead of just being around the EV, it could require someone to really drive that @$!# and blow up manually what is asked to be destroyed.

  • EoxEox FrancePosts: 2,996Moderator

    @Ptiloui said:

    @Eox said:
    DB had just 4 maps along with those three objective types : Trainyard, Underground, Terminal, Chapel and Bridge.

    So, these are 5 maps :wink:

    Oops. Edited.

  • Drac0rionDrac0rion Posts: 456

    I'd be fine with new types of objectives as long as they're both balanced and fun for both attackers and defenders.

    Out of the current ones we have, I probably dislike the delivering the least. You wipe the defense, deliver and done. Nothing complicated, but nothing interesting either.

    The best type of objective we currently have in my opinion is escorting the EV, as it drags out the pacing in the map. From the start to the end of escorting the EV, fights will break out in every section of it.
    While the best example against that pacing might be Underground. You blow up the first objective and nearly every time, the next point of fighting is near the elevator between both sets of stairs and that also only lasts until the spawn is moved forward. After the first objective is blown up, from the stairs down to the next set of stairs it's just dead space. The defense will never bother to hold at that section of the map.

    In general I'd actually like to see many more side objectives. Right now the side objectives mostly just open up more routes and only for the attackers, if I'm not wrong.
    Instead there could also be constructable cover for example. Depending on the positioning it could also be easily balanced to favor either the attackers or the defenders.

    Well made secondary objectives could very well drag out the pacing in the maps, where the entire map could be better utilized without having excessive dead space (old Dome) or meatgrinder chokepoints(yellow tunnel in Bridge before the adjustment).
    I'll try to make a few examples, if I can get my hands on some clean map layouts.

    If there would be more secondary objectives I'd also slightly rework them and include hacking as a mechanic.

    Every secondary objective would consist of 2 parts. The actual construction or whatever and then a wall panel to activate it.
    For example I'll use the barricade that needs to be disabled to escort the EV on Bridge.

    First we have the barricade, the construction, and second we have a wall panel, which would currently be the generator.
    For the defenders to enable the barricade, they just need to use the wall panel, which functions the same as a generator currently.

    Now the difference I would have, is that the construction would be the one that has HP and can be destroyed, by either C4 or straight up damage.
    Depending on the value of the secondary objective, some of them should not be affected by damage, but only the C4. (In this example it could only be destroyed by C4, since it affects the progression of primary objective directly.)
    Now getting back to the importance of the wall panel, the current generator.
    The wall panel would not have HP, but it could be hacked. Hacking would take double the time compared to planting a C4, but it would affect the construction immediately.
    (If we want to take the W:ET route, recons could hack the wall panels in half the time.)

    Doorways could also be done in two ways, depending if the doorway should be able to be opened through damage.
    For example the generator powered doors in Underground first objective or the door to the right of EV in Dockyard first objective. So for some secondary objectives the generators would still exist as the middle part. (Cause you're not going to really hit a door with artillery, airstrike or orbital laser.)

    TL;DR
    Secondary objective has HP and is linked to a wall panel.
    Objective, either C4 or damage to disable.
    Wall panel, just hack it. (8sec to enable, 16sec to disable)
    (The wall panel would be in a easily defendable spot for the team that the objective favors. Also at a greater distance compared to the current generator to objective distance)
    This is just an idea from the top of my head. I'm sure I could find better balance to it, but there really isn't a point to put any effort into it if nobody is interested.

  • @TheWickedsin said:
    I agree completely. Can’t say I have any good options but ffs something else. The secondary’s aren’t really that helpfully, except for vault and xp and the game play is stale even now. I love DB and it is the one game I play but I find myself less and less engaged.

    Because adding more meaningless objective types would all of a sudden spike your interest...

    There's no point in adding more objective types, it's a waste of time that could be better spend on creating a new gamemode.

  • XernyXerny Posts: 15

    Just gonna drop 2 ideas for objective types.

    KING OF THE HILL (?)

    Both teams must plant a special beacon type of device that will start a evacuation type of sequence, the defenders must protect it,meanwhile the attackers must destroy it, when the progress finishes an evacuation helicopter (?) will rescue the mercenaries. If the attackers destroy the device then all the progress is lost. Like always the engineers can do the objectives much faster.

    THE V.I.P (?)

    The attackers must escort a V.I.P (?) to safety (let's say to interogate the V.I.P.), the defenders must kill the V.I.P if they don't want to lose. Recons can kill the V.I.P much faster than other classes, meanwhile the medics are the ONLY ones that can heal the V.I.P and ressurect him the fastest.

    And, welp. That's kind of it. <-<

  • GuziolGuziol Posts: 308

    I'd like to see some tug-of-war style maps.

  • MeerkatsMeerkats Posts: 91
    edited October 13

    @Eox said:
    --- HACKING ---

    --- OBJECTIVE DESTRUCTION, BUT WITH POWER ARMOR ---

    Eh... personally, I'm fine with the current objective type variety. I've said somewhere in the past that I'm here for the game itself; everything else is just dressing.

    You've gotta understand, there really are only so many different objective types, and typically, regardless of how you change the dressings, the resulting gameplay won't change much. Your new objective types, like you stated, are very similar to existing objectives. Hacking is still static defense, and functionally, the same as C4. Power armour is a variant on EV, so not much changes there either. Though your objective types do change the formula in a way I don't know if you yourself realized, overall, static defense is still static defense and escort is still escort.

    It's fun to brainstorm though, and at first, I was thinking dual hold type objectives where attackers would have to control two separate locations simultaneously, but the problem with this is of course that it divides the teams. This is bad for gameplay as it reduces emphasis on teamplay and reduces likelihood of big team fights, which a lot of players enjoy.

    Sooooo... how about a dual escort converging on a single location? CDA ( attackers ) will need to escort two objectives to a Jackal ( defender ) structure. Why not mix things up, right? To move the objective, a friendly player must be adjacent to the objective like the EV, however, unlike the EV, this objective can't be destroyed. In exchange, both objectives must be escorted simultaneously to move. Or maybe the objectives can be destroyed, but repair much more quickly in comparison to how quickly they are destroyed ( so for the EV, one tick might repair 40 HP to a total of 400 HP; for this objective, one tick might repair 60 HP to a total of 240 HP ). Whatever. Details. In the beginning, the objectives start in fairly defensible positions, meaning it is very difficult for defenders to slow progress. However, as the objectives get closer to their destination, the defensible options for attackers get increasingly worse while at the same time improving for defenders, making it easier and easier for defenders to kill attackers and slow progress.

    So in terms of dynamics, the pacing should go like this: The beginning of the match will center less around brawls and more around skirmishes. Brief, isolated engagements. Teamplay and composition will have lower emphasis as the players are divided into smaller teams. However, as the objectives start to converge, the match naturally transitions to bigger engagements where teamplay aspects will be re-emphasized.

    This should provide a different experience requiring new tactics, while promoting greater diversity in merc picks and rotations. As an example, as attackers start from naturally defensible positions, but with smaller numbers, more team-oriented mercs like Sparks have less value while mercs like Fragger, with more solo, hard push potential, have more value. However, as the objectives start to converge, mercs like Sparks becoming increasingly strong. Defensive mercs like Turtle and Guardian might also become very strong around this time as only finishing the last portion of the escort matters.

    This is also thematically inline with Dirty Bomb's existing objective types, as opposed to king of the hill, deathmatch and tug of war variants, which make no sense in context with the rest of the game.

    To make this work, during the early escort portion, engagement ranges must be kept shorter as attacking snipers will be at a huge disadvantage compared to defending snipers. Furthermore, attackers will need ways to quickly get to the objective to maintain a good pace, as this design naturally creates long distances from attacker spawn to objectives. Finally, the defenders can simply full stack against one objective in the early phase and always outnumber attackers, which makes progress very difficult, so something has to be done to prevent this situation. A completely new objective type like this will require a completely different map with completely different solutions.

    Like I said, I'm fine with the objective variety as is, but it's always fun to brainstorm.

    Post edited by Meerkats on
  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,625

    Bring back execution after launch

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  • NailNail Wpg, CanadaPosts: 3,371

    @Eox said:

    IMPORTANT NOTE : I am talking about new objectives for OBJ/SW gamemodes. This thread has nothing to do with new gamemodes !

    moop
  • ShenaynaysShenaynays Posts: 129

    that idea about hacking with an adjusted overall hacking time would be great as a replacement for the gen on bridge

  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,187

    @STARRYSOCK said:
    I had an idea for something a while ago. Basically an objective that has to be destroyed, but can only be damaged from bullet fire.

    Attackers would continually try to shoot this object (which would have a huge amount of health and be resistant to certain damages, so a rhino couldn't kill it in 30 seconds between spawn waves), while defenders would complete secondary objectives to raise shields that would block it from certain angles (but not all).
    Perhaps defenders could slowly repair it, or it could even regen health on its own very slowly. Another idea I had was as it became more and more damaged, certain aspects of the map would change, like routes and spawns

    Basically the idea behind this, is that everyone would be more directly involved in the objective, with less of a focus on team deathmatch. Engineers would still be required on both sides to raise/lower shields to block or open certain vantage points.

    Lorewise, I guess this could be a map set in Pirin's reactor area. They have the ability to stop projectiles as shown by Guardian, so if the reactor was protected by one of those shields and suspended out of reach of the players to prevent C4, it could work well.

    I had this idea as well.
    Secondary objectives could also repair some of the damage for defenders, or an attacker secondary where an NPC cannon lays down fire at the primary objective.

    First!

    48px-First_Blood.png?version=ee44701eadae9f5eb7db0d17c0edc6c9
  • K1X455K1X455 Posts: 1,475

    500 Game Mode XP to build the MG nest and 500XP to destroy it. 750 Game Mode XP if a C4 was used.

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,763

    @K1X455 said:
    500 Game Mode XP to build the MG nest and 500XP to destroy it. 750 Game Mode XP if a C4 was used.

    +1

    Like in OG Battlefront games!

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • FalseLumpyFalseLumpy Posts: 36
    edited October 17

    Had an idea for a secondary obj sorta like an mg nest, but instead it was an EV with limited movement. It'd start in a neutral repair state, whichever team repaired it first would hijack it making it only available to that team. Repairing would work by having one bar, if Jackal had it somewhat repaired previously and CDA tries repairing it, that progress from Jackal would have to go down before being repaired by CDA again.

    Whichever team hijacks it completely gets their respective EV skin placed on it and could move it on a set rail/axis. The other team can destroy it, like a regular ev, to set it back to its neutral state.

  • ImSplooshImSploosh Posts: 1,145

    Would love some more objective types. The current ones have gotten very boring after so long of playing. Of course new gamemodes is probably everyone's first option, but this would definitely help spice up the variety for the time being.

  • Hacking objectives existed in the alpha where it was just like Quake Wars. Covert OPs were required to be able to finish the objective and the timer would slowly run down if it wasn't kept up. That mechanic right there is my assumption of why it was removed, it was no fun nearly finishing the objective and if you were denied it for a minute or so the completion was completely removed.

    It could always be brought back with some tweaks but I think it's unnecessary.

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