New Dev Video: Javelin Adjustment

stayfreshshoestayfreshshoe Posts: 532Administrator, Moderator, Developer

Hey all!

We’re making some adjustments to the way Javelin operates. Have a look at some of the more pronounced changes in anticipation of the full update and release notes later this week.

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Enjoy!
shoe.

Comments

  • jooshoyesjooshoyes Posts: 322

    I really want to see how this goes, as it looks like she will be much more fair to fight against now, but if the charge up time is not changed, it does not change the fact that it can be used in a 1v1 scenario easily. But alas, I might be wrong and with the combination of the damage changes and the indicators, we might just be able to jump away as she fires. Also, nice QoL change for guided mode, I barely saw that being used.

  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,187

    @jooshoyes said:
    I really want to see how this goes, as it looks like she will be much more fair to fight against now, but if the charge up time is not changed, it does not change the fact that it can be used in a 1v1 scenario easily. But alas, I might be wrong and with the combination of the damage changes and the indicators, we might just be able to jump away as she fires. Also, nice QoL change for guided mode, I barely saw that being used.

    considering half the abilities in the game can be used to your advantage in 1v1, imo its not that big a deal.

    The nerfs across the board sure go against the 'javelin is fine' crowd we've been seeing.

    First!

    48px-First_Blood.png?version=ee44701eadae9f5eb7db0d17c0edc6c9
  • Mc1412013Mc1412013 Posts: 1,794

    So now it wont take out a rhino? Dont mind the gibbing reduction. But what will a direct hit to rhino do.
    Not gonna be happy if be survives a rocket to the face with plenty of xp to spare.

    Hey look i finaly got a sig , and nothing to put here

  • jooshoyesjooshoyes Posts: 322

    @Mc1412013 said:
    So now it wont take out a rhino? Dont mind the gibbing reduction. But what will a direct hit to rhino do.
    Not gonna be happy if be survives a rocket to the face with plenty of xp to spare.

    Nah they only changed it so it doesn't instagib as often with splash damage, direct hits are the same.

  • Gimme back that axe! You sucked all of it's power out, and you must unsuck it now!

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • KayDubzKayDubz Posts: 348

    Looks good. Only thing I would change is:

    1. She shouldn't instagib anyone in my view. No other mercs explosives instagib that I'm aware of (air strikes not including). So shes very powerful during indoor or close quarter battles.

    2. Make her Ammo ability actually take effort. Make the player have to press a button. It shouldn't be automatic...even if you are now going to decrease the given amounts of ammo.

  • azz_abdrazz_abdr Posts: 82
    edited September 19

    When they said about health for instagib I was thinking about 70 or lower, I was hoping It's just for direct hit, 100 is still a high number. 3 of 4 medics still very dead.

  • DjiesseDjiesse mtl.qc.caPosts: 837Genome Editor

    Anyone noticed the reskined Obsidian Phoenix showing up throughout the video? Even got the 1st person look at the hand model :)

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,202

    @bgyoshi It's very hard to tell when you're being serious or what your actual view on that is. :/

    Personally, I think I can live with the changes and they aren't terrible, the rocket being a little more necessary on the skill levels because of the blast radius makes it harder to do spawn killing and stuff like that, but oh well. I think the changes to the ammo stuff is a little high... I think simply making it so that she gives ammo slower OR the range reduction might have been nice, but a complete half? If you have to gain two clips of ammo, it will take you 6 seconds of running behind her like a little obedient puppy? Gosh... that... seems excessive. I'll find out soon though. :neutral:

    Also... please at least fix her combat axe. :/

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • @bgyoshi said:
    Basically no Javelin nerf of any kind. Small rework based on the only legitimate feedback given about her. No damage nerf, radius reduction that is pointless since everyone will be using blast radius boost perks, overkill gibbing still works as normal, most players are under 100HP in firefights anyway, rocket charge time completely unchanged. Laser pointer is fun but won't help you dodge, since the general whining is that 1 second isn't enough time to react.

    Get rekt. Glad they didn't go overboard and destroy a mostly fine addition to the game. I can't wait to see the new mountains of salt that are going to form once this update goes live

    How do you think that they fixed the instagibbing? There is a damage nerf (source: reddit). And the aoe was reduced 4.1 meters from 4.8 meters. Even with perks it increases to 4.525 meters. Now it is possible to jump behind a corner to avoid getting instagibbed and get instantly revived by your teams medic. And now half of the merchs can survive in most of the blast radius with the "unshakeable" perk.

  • Happy about the change. Not happy as Im sure you knew this all along and just let her be OP to cash in. All in all, glad that it will be put to rest.

  • n-xn-x Posts: 697

    The info about instagibbing is a bit dodgy:

    On screen it says: "rockets now only instagibs mercs with less than 100hp"

    But he says: "mercs with 100hp or less"

    If case 1 is true Phoenix doesnt get gibbed if case 2 is true he gets gibbed. Especially with Phoenix self revive this makes a huge difference.

  • The biggest problems I've seen with her are how devastating she is when flanking and how effective the rockets are in close quarters.

    Her flanking ability comes from a lack of warning and the huge gibbing AOE. Less gibbing and some pre-launch noise will help this. I think the artillery warning perk should also light up when she starts warming a rocket pointed in your direction, especially dumb fired. If the laser only works in dumb fire mode nobody will use it for flanking anyway.

    I don't see anything done about her close quarters effectiveness. Reducing the AOE will only make her more effective here. The two ways I see to deal with this are a major slowdown and no jumping while pre-launching or add an activation timer on the rockets where if they hit something too soon they fall and explode a few seconds later. Another thing that would help is if shot while pre-launching it could add a tiny bit more pre-launch time making it way harder to time a jump and rocket.

    Her ammo dropping is too easy, but it's not necessarily too fast. I'm regularly out of ammo drops with her. As soon as one regenerates it goes fast, because it takes 0 effort to drop it. I think the ability would be totally in line with other ammo supply if other both players needed to stand still a little before it started dispensing or if they needed to aim directly at her or press something to get ammo.

  • kopyrightkopyright Posts: 425

    @PorkyPerson said:
    I think the ability would be totally in line with other ammo supply if other both players needed to stand still a little before it started dispensing or if they needed to aim directly at her or press something to get ammo.

    Something similar to Phoenix' healing pulse has been suggested in the past, though that's still an active ability, not a passive one.

    Most of these changes sound reasonable to me. Still trying to get a feeling as where exactly I am guiding my rocket at. Maybe we need an official shooting range or something like that. You could even recycle some parts from the Execution maps for it.

    (I know you can load maps via console commands but that's not exactly intuitive)

  • ImSplooshImSploosh Posts: 1,143

    Why did they alter so many things? A nerf to the ammo and maybe a slight nerf or change to the rocket and Javelin would have been fine. Feels like they're over-nerfing her like they've done with some other mercs because people complain too much. Still gotta play her to see for sure though.

  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,739

    This is hardly an overnerf, this is more of the kind of balance I like to see. Giving her real counter play and ways to deal with her, and slightly toning down things, but not so much that she's utterly destroyed.

    They didn't pull a Phantom, which is good.

    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 838
    edited September 19

    @asdfqwop said:

    How do you think that they fixed the instagibbing?

    They didn't change "insta" gibbing, functionally. I can't count how many rockets I've have blow up an inch from me an cause 0 damage, as well as the number of rockets that've blown up a foot from me and not gibbed me. If you get gibbed under 100 HP, then you're being hit for at least 150 damage. Direct hits still kill a Rhino which means at least 200 damage per rocket, slightly more than a Fragger nade. In effect, no change to gibbing, especially in 7v7.

    There is a damage nerf (source: reddit).

    What is it? They didn't say in the video at all

    And the aoe was reduced 4.1 meters from 4.8 meters. Even with perks it increases to 4.525 meters. Now it is possible to jump behind a corner to avoid getting instagibbed and get instantly revived by your teams medic.

    You do realize .275 meters in this game is like the distance of a boot, right?

    And now half of the merchs can survive in most of the blast radius with the "unshakeable" perk.

    If gibbing is based on overkill damage then.. no, they can't if they're under 100 HP.

    @Xenithos said:
    @bgyoshi It's very hard to tell when you're being serious or what your actual view on that is. :/

    The changes are fine and don't really address damage/gib complaints in any functional way. Which is good, because changing those things just makes her a bad Arty/Haggis. Most mercs will be under 100 HP within two or three bullets or one splash from a random explosive. Considering it's impossible to not get hit by the mountain of crossfire in 7v7, that means everyone is still getting gibbed.

    All explosives can gib players with no chance of reviving and an explosive that is slower than 2 Fragger nades better be able to gib. The damage was good (didn't change) and gibbing is necessary (didn't really change).

    Laser is fine and neat to watch
    Ammo generator SHOULD be slower and worse than a stationary ammo station or a tossable pack.
    Visible charging is good, now the unobservant players that can't tell the difference between a gun and a rocket launcher have no excuse. Plus, as a sniper, it makes a great target for shooting to nuke the entire enemy team.

    Good changes, seal of approval!

  • XenithosXenithos Posts: 1,202

    @bgyoshi Thanks for explaining that to me, I'm pretty glad they didn't destroy her either. I'm pretty agreeable with all of them, and they didn't pull a nerf like they did to Phantom. The changes to her rocket launcher are probably the wisest in balancing. Especially considering they basically did what I said short of nerfing her hp a few posts ago.

    So... glad to see this!

    I don't care how much you've played or how good your aim is - If you haven't touched the game at least twice in three months then I see your "opinion" as hot moot.

  • TitaniumRaptureTitaniumRapture Posts: 401
    edited September 20

    Well she will still remain queen of cheap kills. It is nice to know that she is going to fire rocket but i have no chance to kill her in 1,5 second. I doubt it will be enough to even run away in most scenarios.

    Maybe i can try to use melee with pineapple juggler. :D

    Post edited by TitaniumRapture on
  • @bgyoshi said:

    @asdfqwop said:

    How do you think that they fixed the instagibbing?

    They didn't change "insta" gibbing, functionally. I can't count how many rockets I've have blow up an inch from me an cause 0 damage, as well as the number of rockets that've blown up a foot from me and not gibbed me. If you get gibbed under 100 HP, then you're being hit for at least 150 damage. Direct hits still kill a Rhino which means at least 200 damage per rocket, slightly more than a Fragger nade. In effect, no change to gibbing, especially in 7v7.

    There is a damage nerf (source: reddit).

    What is it? They didn't say in the video at all

    A developer in reddit said that the video does not cover every detail and there will be patch notes soon. The blast damage is 200 and there is another 200 bonus damage for direct hits. The blast damage is reduced to approximately 150 but the bonus damage from direct hit is still 200. The blast damage is calculated as (maximum blast damage)x(1-(distance/blast radius)) so reducing the radius also effects the damage. After the nerf fragger, thunder and rhino can survive the maximum blast damage (without direct hit) with "unshakeable" perk. And most of other merchs can survive in most of the radius.

    Btw there is a collision bug with the rocket (it is already reported). If there is anything with collision between a player and the rocket, regardless of how small it is the explosion does not deal damage. So if there is a deployable or an explosive(mines and sticky bombs) between the player and the explosion, then the explosion might not deal damage.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 838
    edited September 20

    @asdfqwop said:
    The blast damage is calculated as (maximum blast damage)x(1-(distance/blast radius)) so reducing the radius also effects the damage.

    If that's how it works then all over 100 HP full health mercs survive 1.1 meters or further away. Before the nerf, all over 100 HP full health mercs survived at 2.2 meters or further. Both reductions only reduced the death radius by 1.1 meters. Considering the general accuracy of rockets, you'd be pretty hard pressed to get outside of 1.1 meters anyway. A nerf indeed, but not the nerf they wanted.

    That being said, contrary to what I said above, bigger blast would in fact be a worthless perk at this point, increasing the minumum kill radius by .2 meters (a boot of distance).

    150 x (1-(1.1/4.10)) = 109.75609
    150 x (1-(1.2/4.51)) = 110.08869 (10% increase to blast radius is +.41 from 4.1 to 4.51)

    200 x (1-(2.2/4.80)) = 108.33333

    The nerf everyone wanted was gib only on direct hits, kill only on the inner-most radius, and increase charge time to 3 seconds.

    This is still way better than the suggested changes and, again, I doubt people will notice much of a difference in 7v7

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