Burst rifles are still dominant

woodchipwoodchip Posts: 115
edited September 18 in Weapon Discussion

Even with their DPS in line with other ARs, the burst factors of frontloaded damage and shot timing are keeping them a tier above other ARs, especially for dueling. The M4 does less DPS straight up, and the Timik's tiny DPS edge never catches up to the burst rifles frontload.

Burst damage

Because the first burst fires instantly, burst rifles start the fight with extra damage not reflected in overall DPS. Below shows damage across time for the first 2 seconds of a fight, all bodyshots:

T 0: STARK BR M4 TIMIK
T .1: 34 32 14 14
T .2: 51 48 28 28
T .3: 51 48 42 42
T .4: 51 64 56 56
T .5: 85 80 70 70
T .6: 102 96 84 84
T .7: 102 96 98 98
T .8: 102 112 112 112
T .9: 119 128 126 126
T 1: 153 144 126 140
T 1.1: 153 144 140 154
T 1.2: 153 144 154 168
T 1.3: 170 160 168 168
T 1.4: 204 192 182 182
T 1.5: 204 192 196 196
T 1.6: 221 208 210 210
T 1.7: 238 240 224 224
T 1.8: 255 240 238 238
T 1.9: 255 240 238 252
T 2: 255 272 252 266
T 2.1: 289 288 266 280

(TL:DR, bursts rifles actually out damage M4 & Timik

By this point someone is usually dead, assuming average aim & headshot rates. We can input different accuracy rates to see BR vs AR performance at killing 120 HP. Let 200% accuracy be 100% headshots, with accuracy between 0-200%.

200% -- Stark kills in .45 seconds, BR kills in .4 seconds, M4 & Timik kill in .5 seconds.
160% -- Stark kills in .5 seconds, BR kills in .5 seconds, M4 & Timik kill at between .5 and .6 sec, depends on luck.
133% -- Stark kills in .6 seconds, BR kills in .6 seconds, M4 & Timik kill at .6 or .7 seconds, depends on luck.

And so on. The BRs are a head at duel TTK at every step. And significantly: BR TTKs are about 10% faster with identical accuracy.

(END)

So in an average length gunfight, the burst rifles do more DPS despite having better range & fall off and being easier to accurately control with shot timing. In a very high skill gunfight where headshots outweigh misses, the BR advantage is even greater. Burst rifles are still significantly stronger at just about everything, especially in skilled hands. Please consider nerfing them further, & perhaps buffing their falloff advantage to compensate. It's not cool that BRs have been better at everything for going on a year.

Post edited by Eox on

Comments

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,623

    i really dont know how to fix burst rifle.

    the only gun i use is Timik and thats either skyhammer or stoker because im bad at aiming with burst rifle or other slow firing weapon like K121.

    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • Drac0rionDrac0rion Posts: 456

    Bursts need to last longer to give more chance for user error.
    With the upfront damage and the merc hp diversity this is my best suggestion I guess.

    Currently burst rifles are any range sniper rifles with high RoF. Landing a single full burst at someones head is almost as deciding as a sniper shot to the head (for mercs with >90hp it already is).

  • @watsyurdeal said:
    I would say increase the delay so the dps is lower, but the amount of damage upfront is higher.

    well, that wouldn't stop aura/sparks mains getting mad from being triple-DINGed

  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741

    @everlovestruck said:

    @watsyurdeal said:
    I would say increase the delay so the dps is lower, but the amount of damage upfront is higher.

    well, that wouldn't stop aura/sparks mains getting mad from being triple-DINGed

    Maybe not but the reality is that if the total dps is inferior to assault rifles and the like, but the burst damage is higher, you can't really @$!# and moan that it's op. Or you can, but be laughed at.

    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 115

    @watsyurdeal said:

    @everlovestruck said:

    @watsyurdeal said:
    I would say increase the delay so the dps is lower, but the amount of damage upfront is higher.

    well, that wouldn't stop aura/sparks mains getting mad from being triple-DINGed

    Maybe not but the reality is that if the total dps is inferior to assault rifles and the like, but the burst damage is higher, you can't really @$!# and moan that it's op. Or you can, but be laughed at.

    Also, the triple ding kill behavior is kind of good weapon design IMO. It's good for weapons to have iconic strengths like that, as long as it's hard to pull off. Triple ding feels more powerful than it actually is, and it also promotes a slightly more patient style of shooting.

    It's really cool actually that the burst mechanic lets BRs have these powerful but hard to master strengths. Problem is just that ARs don't really have any particular strengths of their own. Past a moderate level of skill BRs do AR DPS but with a frontload advantage, slightly greater accuracy because of the ability to time bursts, and with better performance at range.

    Increasing BR between burst time by a small amount, perhaps 5%, would preserve BR strength while adding a meaningful BR weakness. My only concern with that kind of RoF change is that messing with the feel of weapons tends to really throw people off.

    The other option I see would be to lower per bullet damage 1 point further. In the case of either nerf I would probably also favor a small reduction in BR bullet spread, to help define BRs as especially accurate.

    The overall problem is that SD seemed to think that the BR mechanic is fundamentally a weakness rather than a strength, and so needs greater than average DPS in order to compete with ARs. But as far as I can tell, firing bullets in bursts is all equal a significant advantage.

  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741

    AR's don't have any strengths? They're the most consistent guns at every range. They're not specialized but are good enough to do the job just about anywhere. That's their strength, at least that's how I see it.

    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • henki000henki000 Posts: 253

    Please dont nerf burst rifles. Give other weapons a buff. How rare is it to see fragger with BR already?

  • @henki000 said:
    Please dont nerf burst rifles. Give other weapons a buff. How rare is it to see fragger with BR already?

    fragger with BR are exclusively used by people with really good aim

    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • DemolamaDemolama Posts: 102
    edited September 21

    The time to kill in this game has gotten lower since they buffed burst rifles, which are also attached to some of the most bomb damage mercs in the game.

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