Dirty Wars 1: The Javelin Menace.

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  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 1,914

    I'll wait until the update comes before saying anything about her, though atm she isn't that painful to go against. Bad Javelins usually end up wasting the rocket on that one person just to win a firefight between them, which usually gets them to kill themselves or die to a group of enemies later on. Good Javelins can be annoying, but it still isn't as bad as going up against a good sniper or medic.

    @scrub_lord said:
    Hey guys I just got a 5 man kill with Javelin's rocket on a group camping a health station at the hallway entrance Bridge first point. Did the same thing with Stoker, but only killed one person cause the rest jumped out of the flame.

    i could say, javelin is still better on breaking up camps than stoker.

    Kira's the best camp breaker fyi.

    My aim is as great as a beautiful Proxy.

    Neither of the two exist.
  • TheFpsPro27TheFpsPro27 Posts: 37
    edited September 10

    Javelin's rocket is the only high damage ability that can be used during combat. Other fire supports flinch like hell while using their abilities. When a fragger or nader throws grenades during combat you have 3 seconds to kill them(1 second for javelin). Proxy needs to be extremely close to throw and explode the mine, the mine has much smaller blast radius and you get at least 1.5 second against her.

    Also frag grenades, nader's grenades, mines and sticky bombs can not instagib. When i play medic other explosives only give me revive xp. But when the other team spams rockets you can not get any revive xp, the rocket makes medics useless.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 733

    @TheFpsPro27 said:

    Also frag grenades, nader's grenades, mines and sticky bombs can not instagib.

    I swear to god I'm going to start an entire thread that is nothing but quotes from people that have no idea how explosives work complaining that Jav rockets are some magical projectile that can instagib

    Protip for the 10000th time: No, they don't instagib.

  • TheFpsPro27TheFpsPro27 Posts: 37
    edited September 11

    @bgyoshi said:

    @TheFpsPro27 said:

    Also frag grenades, nader's grenades, mines and sticky bombs can not instagib.

    I swear to god I'm going to start an entire thread that is nothing but quotes from people that have no idea how explosives work complaining that Jav rockets are some magical projectile that can instagib

    Protip for the 10000th time: No, they don't instagib.

    Now you can't even find anything to defend the rocket and started lying (or you had never seen the rocket in the game). Protip: yes they instagib in most of their radius. Go lie somewhere else.

    As i said before Javelin's rocket is the only high damage ability that can be used during combat. Other fire supports flinch like hell while using their abilities. When a fragger or nader throws grenades during combat you have 3 seconds to kill them(1 second for javelin). Proxy needs to be extremely close to throw and explode the mine, the mine has much smaller blast radius and you get at least 1.5 second against her.

    You are out of arguments. Learn to play instead of defending javelin. I bet you will ignore most of my comment and reply with a retarted lie again.

  • direct hits from javelin does instagibs
    200+ damage

    @TheFpsPro27 said:
    Javelin's rocket is the only high damage ability that can be used during combat. Other fire supports flinch like hell while using their abilities. When a fragger or nader throws grenades during combat you have 3 seconds to kill them(1 second for javelin). Proxy needs to be extremely close to throw and explode the mine, the mine has much smaller blast radius and you get at least 1.5 second against her.

    Also frag grenades, nader's grenades, mines and sticky bombs can not instagib. When i play medic other explosives only give me revive xp. But when the other team spams rockets you can not get any revive xp, the rocket makes medics useless.

    theres 1 other fire support that doesnt flinch and dont even need a wind up for his ability tho.

    frag grenade, nader's nade, mines, sticky bomb can instagib if enemy health is low enough.

    if what you care is truly about how javelin instagibs you must have never seen Arty going 30K score in chapel. You cant even see or shoot good arty because he plays on the back but your team will nearly always get minimum 2 instagibbed and teamwipe in front of the spawn is not rare. His cooldown is only 20 sec and he got 2 charges that starts the cooldown after it drops.

    you cant compare fragger to javelin since fragger is a different playstyle alltogether.
    the nearest ones to javelin is arty.

    javelin is a poopy vertical arty with more emphasis on ammo, the AoE is the same, their weapon loadouts are similar.

    if you think Javelin is OP, you should consider getting good.

    A Hat In Time: Picture Perfect!                                                                  
  • @GatoCommodore said:
    direct hits from javelin does instagibs
    200+ damage

    @TheFpsPro27 said:
    Javelin's rocket is the only high damage ability that can be used during combat. Other fire supports flinch like hell while using their abilities. When a fragger or nader throws grenades during combat you have 3 seconds to kill them(1 second for javelin). Proxy needs to be extremely close to throw and explode the mine, the mine has much smaller blast radius and you get at least 1.5 second against her.

    Also frag grenades, nader's grenades, mines and sticky bombs can not instagib. When i play medic other explosives only give me revive xp. But when the other team spams rockets you can not get any revive xp, the rocket makes medics useless.

    theres 1 other fire support that doesnt flinch and dont even need a wind up for his ability tho.

    The molotov takes time to spread and it can't damage the players while they are at midair, it can be easyly dodged by simply jumping.

    frag grenade, nader's nade, mines, sticky bomb can instagib if enemy health is low enough.

    As you said, they can instagib only if the enemy hp is extremely low. 99% of the time they can't instagib and they only give medics revive xp. Since the rocket spam medics became useless.

    if what you care is truly about how javelin instagibs you must have never seen Arty going 30K score in chapel. You cant even see or shoot good arty because he plays on the back but your team will nearly always get minimum 2 instagibbed and teamwipe in front of the spawn is not rare. His cooldown is only 20 sec and he got 2 charges that starts the cooldown after it drops.

    As i said before, the biggest problem is: the rocket is the only high damage explosive ability that can be used during combat (just like the other guy you ignored that part and replied to the other part).

    you cant compare fragger to javelin since fragger is a different playstyle alltogether.
    the nearest ones to javelin is arty.

    I compared it the other explosives because javelin mains say retarted things like "other explosives can instakill too..." but they ignore the fact that the rocket is the only high damage explosive that can be used during combat.

    javelin is a poopy vertical arty with more emphasis on ammo, the AoE is the same, their weapon loadouts are similar.

    You ignore the fact that Arty can't use his ability indoors. You can see where it lands 1.5 seconds before, but untill javelin fires the rocket you can't know where she is about to shoot. With its high speed the rocket reaches its target in less than a second even at long range, so you only have less than half a second to see where the rocket is going and dodge it(you get 1.5 seconds+a flashy laser+a loud voice against arty)

    if you think Javelin is OP, you should consider getting good.

    If you think Arty's ability is better, you should get good. Arty's ability lands after 1.5 seconds, makes a loud noise, a huge laser shows where it lands, and it only takes a jump to get out of its area. No matter how good the arty is, an avarage player can easyly dodge it every single time. Only noobs die to Arty's ability. And unlike Javelin, Arty can't use his ability during combat, instead he has to shoot his gun.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 733
    edited September 11

    @TheFpsPro27 said:
    Protip: yes they instagib in most of their radius. Go lie somewhere else.

    1. Gib: Exploding due to being damaged well beyond remaining life
      Instagib: Gib from any amount of damage

    2. Show me a video where a full over 100HP merc is gibbed from an AoE hit further than .5 meters. (Protip: You can't, because they don't)

    3. I had 20 hours of Javelin before I generally stopped playing and the only gibs I ever got were direct hits or mercs under half HP. Even the inner most radius didn't gib full HP mercs. So show me the videos of these magical instagibs, please. This is a stark contrast to the 50+ hours I have with every other merc.

    4. I dodge rockets literally every match I play. It's not hard. Learn to play against Jav and you won't get killed by rockets any more.

    @TheFpsPro27 said:
    Javelin's rocket is the only high damage ability that can be used during combat.

    Yeah and Sparks is the only medic that can revive from a distance
    And Sparks is the only medic that can use her reviving as a weapon. Everyone else has to slow down and charge up and run in
    And Fletcher is the only one that can stick explosives to enemies
    And Kira is the only one that can call a laser
    And
    And
    And
    And

    So what? Are you saying that just because no other merc has a combat high explosive, that NO MERC should have a combat high explosive?

    So if no one else can do it, no one should do it??

    Post edited by bgyoshi on
  • @TheFpsPro27

    The molotov takes time to spread and it can't damage the players while they are at midair, >it can be easyly dodged by simply jumping.

    so does grenade, mines, kira laser, arty strike, skyhammer missile, skyhammer grenade and hey! even javelin is easily dodgeable by jumping away and juking right or left! Bet you think dodging abilities is hard huh?

    99% of the time they can't instagib and they only give medics revive xp. Since the rocket >spam medics became useless

    i beg to differ, 2 mine trick, cooked grenade, 2 sticked stickies instagibs anything lower or equal 120hp mercs

    As i said before, the biggest problem is: the rocket is the only high damage explosive >ability that can be used during combat

    you never see arty aiming down to the floor while on duel or when hes running away?
    have you played against a good arty before? But its nearly as rare as good vasilli, so its understandable if you never seen one...

    You ignore the fact that Arty can't use his ability indoors. You can see where it lands 1.5 >seconds before, but untill javelin fires the rocket you can't know where she is about to >shoot.

    only noob arty drops in front of the opponent.
    and no, you couldnt have known if an arty going to drop, you see, there are high traffic spots where people cant even see the laser even tho its currently dropping.
    the only way you know it will drop is using guardian angel perk.

    Arty can't use his ability during combat

    wrong again.
    hell he can use it while on duel, use it on a walljump and then instagib the opponent, if the opponent runs away, arty gets the upper hand and easily send a burst or a 27 bodyshot. Even better if it gets a headshot because arty weapons are all hard hitting.

    A Hat In Time: Picture Perfect!                                                                  
  • @bgyoshi said:

    So what? Are you saying that just because no other merc has a combat high explosive, that NO MERC should have a combat high explosive?

    Yes, no merch should have an instakill explosive that makes noobs easyly dominate pro players. So noobs will learn how to aim and set up timing for abilities (maybe you should also learn how to aim and improve your timing).

    @GatoCommodore said:
    @TheFpsPro27

    The molotov takes time to spread and it can't damage the players while they are at midair, >it can be easyly dodged by simply jumping.

    so does grenade, mines, kira laser, arty strike, skyhammer missile, skyhammer grenade and hey! even javelin is easily dodgeable by jumping away and juking right or left! Bet you think dodging abilities is hard huh?

    Show me one video where someone dodges every rocket. Tip: you can't, noone can react fast enough to do that. As i said before(and you ignore every time): against every other instakill ability you get at least 2 seconds, but rocket can reach its target in less than half a second from long distance (average human reaction time is 0.2+ seconds, and most merchs need to move at least half a second to get out of that huge area). You can only randomly move and hope that the person using javelin has a poor aim to dodge it.

    99% of the time they can't instagib and they only give medics revive xp. Since the rocket >spam medics became useless

    i beg to differ, 2 mine trick, cooked grenade, 2 sticked stickies instagibs anything lower or equal 120hp mercs

    As i said before, the biggest problem is: the rocket is the only high damage explosive >ability that can be used during combat

    you never see arty aiming down to the floor while on duel or when hes running away?
    have you played against a good arty before? But its nearly as rare as good vasilli, so its understandable if you never seen one...

    No, i have seen a lot of good arty. I can simply kill them in 2 seconds(before they can use their abilities). And arty flinch like hell even from 1 bullet while aiming(arty needs to aim at same spot for a second so flinching resets his ability). Unless that "good arty" is against someone who can't even hit with 1 bullet, he can't use his ability during combat.

    You ignore the fact that Arty can't use his ability indoors. You can see where it lands 1.5 >seconds before, but untill javelin fires the rocket you can't know where she is about to >shoot.

    only noob arty drops in front of the opponent.
    and no, you couldnt have known if an arty going to drop, you see, there are high traffic spots where people cant even see the laser even tho its currently dropping.
    the only way you know it will drop is using guardian angel perk.

    As you said, a noob arty can't hit anyone with his ability, but a noob javelin gets free kills with rockets.

    It emits a voice even without guardian angel perk. Tip: wear headphones to tell where the sound is coming from.

    Arty can't use his ability during combat

    wrong again.
    hell he can use it while on duel, use it on a walljump and then instagib the opponent, if the opponent runs away, arty gets the upper hand and easily send a burst or a 27 bodyshot. Even better if it gets a headshot because arty weapons are all hard hitting.

    Tip: you can fire while running away. And you said it yourself, even after using his ability arty still needs to shoot his gun.

  • zadoryzadory Posts: 3

    To solve the problem. Just raise the other assault rifles' hs damage.

    People didn't complaint about Rocket in RTCW cause mp40/thompson deal enough damage from hs ( 50 damage !). that make people had enough chance to face rocket ( btw..rocket in RTCW or ET dosen't need CD time)

    back to this game. They nerf assault in the beginning for no reason (maybe to protect rookie?). m4a1/timik head shot damage only 28? lmao. That made fire support merc no much advantage even in front of medic/eng. 3 head shot take down no body..omg.

    Now the Rocket pop up, even it's just the normal setting like oher fps, other fire support merc still need more time to kill her ( eng/medic/scout have no reason to complain..cause you are not fire supporter, why you need more power ? ) . The real problem is, all the time they doing wrong, the unbelievable weakness assault weapon in FPS world.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 733
    edited September 12

    @TheFpsPro27 said:
    Yes, no merch should have an instakill explosive that makes noobs easyly dominate pro players. So noobs will learn how to aim and set up timing for abilities (maybe you should also learn how to aim and improve your timing).

    Well I guess we need to remove Fragger and Fletcher then. Not only do they have rockets, but they can toss rockets from complete safety with no counterplay, and Fragger's rockets bounce off walls!

    Just look at how skillfully this nade (tossed with pure skill) blows up a team while the Fragger is so forced into the open and the other team can totally kill him while he throws it and (so much skill) have a chance to counter him.

    Only the highest skilled players can do it

    Totally not a noob machine

    (Pure skill)

  • @bgyoshi said:

    @TheFpsPro27 said:
    Yes, no merch should have an instakill explosive that makes noobs easyly dominate pro players. So noobs will learn how to aim and set up timing for abilities (maybe you should also learn how to aim and improve your timing).

    Well I guess we need to remove Fragger and Fletcher then. Not only do they have rockets, but they can toss rockets from complete safety with no counterplay, and Fragger's rockets bounce off walls!

    Just look at how skillfully this nade (tossed with pure skill) blows up a team while the Fragger is so forced into the open and the other team can totally kill him while he throws it and (so much skill) have a chance to counter him.

    Only the highest skilled players can do it

    Totally not a noob machine

    (Pure skill)

    They saw the fragger coming out then taking cover again, it is those noobs fault that they couldn't even assume that fragger was cooking his granade. Imagine a javelin in that position, there would be no way to counter her expect for aiming like a pro and killing her in a second with instant headshots.

    Btw i was talking about how other explosives don't work during combat in most situations because there are at least 1 easy counter against each of them and you are showing me a video where a fragger throws grenade while out of combat.

    Don't even bother replying again, as you run out of arguments your replies becomes even more retarted. I won't even read them again anyway.

  • @scrub_lord said:
    Hey guys I just got a 5 man kill with Javelin's rocket on a group camping a health station at the hallway entrance Bridge first point. Did the same thing with Stoker, but only killed one person cause the rest jumped out of the flame.

    i could say, javelin is still better on breaking up camps than stoker.

    and pretty much every other merc who could do that.

  • PumpkillerPumpkiller Posts: 161
    edited September 15

    There's one thing i don't get though: Why are pepole still defending a 1 second charge, 30 second cd, 200 dmg rocket by telling pepole that sky and arty of all characters could do the same.

    I just don't understand, what's balanced about Everything that got Thunder and Fragger @$!# for back when they were op(low cdwns for ridiculoiusly powerful abilities) and somehow twist it into a praiseworthy, balance example like "it's your fault i'f you didn't shoot down the rocket that was just shot at a leg's length from you, now your team's ded gj skrub"

    Even my brother, who hasn't touched an fps for a year, top fragged and top scored without any effort, thats how dumb it is.

    Not trying to argue, i wanna know.

    Post edited by Pumpkiller on
  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 733
    edited September 21

    @Pumpkiller said:

    Not trying to argue, i wanna know.

    After firing one rocket that has a limited firing window, a huge damage falloff, can't be shot effectively from cover, can be disabled in guided mode, and can't be cancelled:

    • Fragger gets 2 more 170 damage nades that are easier to time and can be thrown from behind cover with no counterplay possible.

    • Fletcher gets 5 more 80 damage (possibly 100) nades that require minimal effort to aim and time that can stick to players and persist after death.

    • Thunder gets 2 more conc nades that completely (though poorly) disable players.

    And..

    • Nader gets 7 more 75 damage (+15 on direct hit) nades that can be bounced around corners or lose all momentum on the ground.

    So in terms of secondary damage per 30 seconds:

    • Fragger: 510 max
    • Fletcher: 480 - 600
    • Nader: 600 - 800

    • Javelin: 200 max

    Post edited by bgyoshi on
  • GuziolGuziol Posts: 260

    Rocket seems fine, a bit annoying but fine. The ammo got overnerfed in my opinion. I'd like to have the old ammo rate or range but not both nerfed at once.

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