Javelin is Air/Fire Support or shes Assault. Devs need to pick one not both

KayDubzKayDubz Posts: 348
edited August 24 in Mercenary Discussion

This is how I think Javelin needs to be.

Remove the standard straight rocket shot. And make her guided missle only. Decrease the area of effect and damage just a tad so its not an easy insta-gib like it is currently. This would make her fit in more as an air support merc. And would force her to be vulnerable to guide the missle. You know...the same way Kira is vulnerable when guiding. Also increase her cooldown, and give her a better audio and visual warning to the guided missle before she shoots

Why those suggestions? Because all the other air support mercs cannot use their ability to instantly gib someone in a ground battle in one second. The assault mercs cannot either. All the other air support mercs have to take time to deploy their air support, and then wait for it to reach an opponent. And those mercs also have obvious sounds warning players long before the air support arrives. As well as a colored beam on the ground warning of location.

Seems the devs were caught in two minds when creating Javelin. They made her a very good fire/air support merc, that's also a very good assault merc. They give her a straight shot that insta-gibs 1 or more people every 30 seconds. So shes basically what Fragger used to be...without the 3 or 4 second cooking time he has. And without the red trail or loud beeping/chiming noise that Fragger and Nader have.

Dunno why devs thought it was a good idea to turn an air support merc into an overly efficient killing machine that outkills Fragger now...can instagib with a non-air attack (they nerfed this for all other mercs a year ago) along with her ammo giving ability, where she doesn't have to pause in battle to give herself or others ammo (which every other merc has to take a couple seconds to drop ammo).

Make up your mind Devs. Is Javelin primarily air/fire support....or is she primarily an assault merc rivaling Fragger's potential?

I have more thoughts on her primary gun, primary melee and ammo ability....but that's for another thread. But they all add into her being way to good at rivaling both the best fire and assault mercs of the game.

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Comments

  • kittz0rkittz0r Posts: 284

    The Rocket Launcher doesn't shoot immediately, so your whole point is already invalid.

  • I agree, in my opinion as of now Javelin plays too much like an assault merc + ammo. Some changes are definitely needed.

  • Agree with premise of the OP's post. My personal preference is that Javelin is modified to act more in line with Nader as far as the rocket goes. Low splash damage, high direct hit damage, multiple rockets in a clip that fully refill relatively slowly. Just my opinion. And they have GOT to get rid of that asinine ammo-dispensing ability. They need to make it so that she needs to rely on different characters to an extent-- right now she is almost entirely self-sufficient.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,625

    arty, kira, skyhammer can instagib

    even stoker if the victim trapped in the fire

    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • DemolamaDemolama Posts: 102
    edited August 25

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=-KIl6vluHBg&t=1s

    In RTCW and W:ET the panzerfaust was a high risk, high reward weapon. The user was an "assault style merc" and therefore could not resupply himself. He was also armed only with a pistol, 4 nades, and a knife. Thus, if the panzer user misses with his panzer shot he was very vulnerable until it was up again.

    Javelin screams of being Dazzler all over again.

    Not only does Javelin not run out of ammo for her panzer, she can resupply herself for her other weapons. She has a strong rifle. Basically, there is no high risk for her.

    Since DB is the grandson of RTCW, I really wish the developers would spend some time playing RTCW's multiplayer and learn about what made RTCW a great competitive shooter

    Post edited by Demolama on
  • Mods can you guys please merge all the Javelin sook threads into one.

    Yeah she's strong, and you'd have to be blind to not see the incoming nerf.

    Yawwwwwwwwwwwwn.

  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 115

    She's obviously going to eat a nerf to her rocket. But even with a nerfed rocket she should have lower HP than her fire support peers. As long as the rocket keeps its general behavior plus or minus a small nerf to charge time or cooldown it will feel closer to an assault merc ability because it's way harder to dodge than the other fire support stuff. No matter how they nerf it, it's still going to be the only fire support skill that scores reliable 1 hit kills.

    So with that in mind, I'd rather they just embrace Javelin's weird hybrid role and nerf her HP by 10 or maybe even 20. So she's the fire support with an assaultish ability but medicish health. That keeps her unique and also gives you space to keep her missile powerful.

    Balancing Javelin's missile to have the same killing power as arty or molotov would require nerfing it so far into the ground that I can't even imagine how you would do it. Better to just let it be a bit overtuned and balance Javelin around it.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,625

    @woodchip said:
    She's obviously going to eat a nerf to her rocket. But even with a nerfed rocket she should have lower HP than her fire support peers. As long as the rocket keeps its general behavior plus or minus a small nerf to charge time or cooldown it will feel closer to an assault merc ability because it's way harder to dodge than the other fire support stuff. No matter how they nerf it, it's still going to be the only fire support skill that scores reliable 1 hit kills.

    So with that in mind, I'd rather they just embrace Javelin's weird hybrid role and nerf her HP by 10 or maybe even 20. So she's the fire support with an assaultish ability but medicish health. That keeps her unique and also gives you space to keep her missile powerful.

    now that you mention it,
    we dont have fire support with 100hp

    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • Dys[fn]alDys[fn]al Posts: 66

    now that you mention it,
    we don't have a fire support with 10000hp

    jus sayin

    legit tho, she needs longer prime and an audio cue, and her cooldown is too long for assault (notice all the others can use their abilities much more frequently), so she definitely fits best as a fire support. Her ability should be easily avoided but hard hitting, just like all other fire supports

  • zadoryzadory Posts: 3

    Skyhammer's airstrike
    1. damages: 500DPS
    2. cool down: 60S
    3. Highly ground effect

    Kira's Obital Laser:
    1. damages: 550DPS and 10S duration
    2. cool down: 50S
    3. Highly ground effect

    Arty's Artillery Spotter
    1. damages: 270 DPS
    2. cool down: 25S
    3. small ground wffect

    stoker's Molotov
    1. damages: 77DPS+30DPS outer with 10S duration
    3. cool down: 35S
    4. highly ground effect

    Jave's Rocket
    2. damages: 400DPS
    3. cool down: 30S
    4. small ground effect


    Every fire support merc could instagib. and it seems ok with 30S cool down in Jave. (ground effect not longer than 1 sec,and take risk: cannot cancel firing and need still 1 sec while others don't ). can Jave just throw a signal and take gun out to shoot? No. Can Jave have high impact on masive ground to make everybody run? No.

    I don't see there is reason to make her cool down time longer than molotov. Molotov has other impact not only it's damage, and it alway do masive change in OBJ mode.

    By the way. EVERY SMG/RIFLES dps is higher than 120, that means basicly every merc could have equal chance to kill each, not to mention other mercs special ability.

    And since someone mention RTCW. I tell you the truth. Rocket in RTCW also instagib and WITH NO COOL DOWN TIME just reload time. it also could refill ammo from anothers. It's more powerful and easy than in dirty bomb.(no one cry about it) (oh, it could cancel firing just press e to treat you)

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,625
    edited August 29

    @Dys[fn]al said:
    now that you mention it,
    we don't have a fire support with 10000hp

    jus sayin

    legit tho, she needs longer prime and an audio cue, and her cooldown is too long for assault (notice all the others can use their abilities much more frequently), so she definitely fits best as a fire support. Her ability should be easily avoided but hard hitting, just like all other fire supports

    nono, what i meant is we have medic that has 100hp because he trades healing speed and AoE healing (can heal entire team instantly) by having 100hp

    Recon that has SMG, invisibility, ability to tank sniper shot to the head and he trade this ability with having 100hp

    a fire support that can actually direct her fire support for a full 10 seconds and faster speed than most fire support justifies her ability to do this by only having 90hp

    you see where im going with this?
    javelin had the ability to keep replenishing ammo to friendlies all the time and her fire support ability is shooting a missile that can be controlled for deep strike and removes enemy camp spot (much like stoker but doesnt deny an area)

    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • SaulWolfdenSaulWolfden Posts: 795

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @woodchip said:
    She's obviously going to eat a nerf to her rocket. But even with a nerfed rocket she should have lower HP than her fire support peers. As long as the rocket keeps its general behavior plus or minus a small nerf to charge time or cooldown it will feel closer to an assault merc ability because it's way harder to dodge than the other fire support stuff. No matter how they nerf it, it's still going to be the only fire support skill that scores reliable 1 hit kills.

    So with that in mind, I'd rather they just embrace Javelin's weird hybrid role and nerf her HP by 10 or maybe even 20. So she's the fire support with an assaultish ability but medicish health. That keeps her unique and also gives you space to keep her missile powerful.

    now that you mention it,
    we dont have fire support with 100hp

    Easy, buff Kira's HP to 100, she's the only 90 HP merc that shouldn't be there.

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,625

    @SaulWolfden said:
    Easy, buff Kira's HP to 100, she's the only 90 HP merc that shouldn't be there.

    she was even more faster before the speed nerf.
    and i was also confused on why kira HP didnt get buffed when they nerf the speed

    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • GireGire Posts: 42

    @GatoCommodore Please no... Kira is good now, no need to buff her. Her lazer covers it all up.

  • KayDubzKayDubz Posts: 348
    edited September 2

    @zadory said:

    Every other AIR support merc (leaving out Stoker, since hes not Air) has an obvious beam of light to gives away the position of their special ability before it lands. Every other air support ability is near useless indoors and cannot instagib the way Javelin can. Every other air support merc has to make an effort to give ammo...it isn't automatic.

    And every other AIR support merc requires several seconds before their special ability reaches an enemy (on top of a longer cooldown than Javelin)

  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,625

    @KayDubz said:

    @zadory said:

    Every other AIR support merc (leaving out Stoker, since hes not Air) has an obvious beam of light to gives away the position of their special ability before it lands. Every other air support ability is near useless indoors and cannot instagib the way Javelin can. Every other air support merc has to make an effort to give ammo...it isn't automatic.

    And every other AIR support merc requires several seconds before their special ability reaches an enemy (on top of a longer cooldown than Javelin)

    you mean FIRE support mercs

    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • KayDubzKayDubz Posts: 348

    @GatoCommodore said:

    @KayDubz said:

    @zadory said:

    Every other AIR support merc (leaving out Stoker, since hes not Air) has an obvious beam of light to gives away the position of their special ability before it lands. Every other air support ability is near useless indoors and cannot instagib the way Javelin can. Every other air support merc has to make an effort to give ammo...it isn't automatic.

    And every other AIR support merc requires several seconds before their special ability reaches an enemy (on top of a longer cooldown than Javelin)

    you mean FIRE support mercs

    I mean air support. Which is why I said AIR....to purposefully leave out Stoker who of all the Fire support mercs, is NOT also an Air support merc.

  • kopyrightkopyright Posts: 427

    @KayDubz said:
    *2. Arty Kira and Sky have to direct hit you with an air strike/laser and it has to damage you multiple times.

    With Sky you can be 5m away from the blast and still get instagibbed, though.

  • Mr-PenguinMr-Penguin Posts: 2,237

    @kopyright said:

    @KayDubz said:
    *2. Arty Kira and Sky have to direct hit you with an air strike/laser and it has to damage you multiple times.

    With Sky you can be 5m away from the blast and still get instagibbed, though.

    But you can see the airstrike coming pretty easily. A rocket? Not so much.

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    IGN/Steam Profile Mr. Penguin
    Have an idea for a new merc? Then head on over to my Mercenary Suggestion Form and go post it!
  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 845

    Why doesn't this thread exist for Fletcher too

    Oh wait it's because of the huge influx of NaCL for absolutely no reason

  • KayDubzKayDubz Posts: 348
    edited September 12

    @bgyoshi said:
    Why doesn't this thread exist for Fletcher too

    Oh wait it's because of the huge influx of NaCL for absolutely no reason

    Fletcher can gib you with one sticky? Oh wait he cant.

    And he was just nerfed again in the Javelin update....on top of STILL having weapon switching issues that aren't completely fixed with him.

    Take your cow-plop troll post elsewhere kid. You are late to the party and bring nothing to this discussion.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 845
    edited September 12

    @KayDubz said:

    Fletcher can gib you with one sticky? Oh wait he cant.

    Well let's see..

    The argument that Javelin can "instagib" is people whining that "but my HP is low and I get rocketted and instantly gibbed"

    One sticky is either 80 damage or 100 damage

    So yeah, one sticky will instagib you

    "But only if you took damage first"

    Oh well I know that but if I keep saying Fletcher (Javelin) is OP instagib while omitting the part where you need to have taken damage first then maybe SD will nerf it because it's clearly OP and not my lack of smart playing that's getting me killed.

    Also the "nerf" was a +1 second cooldown to the stickies (lmfao) and increasing max shotgun damage range to 3m instead of 2m. Damage was untouched.

    Yeah sounds like a nerf to me

  • woodchipwoodchip Posts: 115

    Javelin's rockets insta gib on direct hits even vs a 100% HP Rhino with explosive resistance. Fletcher's bombs gib when you are below 50 or so health.

    I know it's a subtle distinction but if you think about it very, very carefully (don't hurt yourself!) you can see why those are very different things.

  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 845

    @woodchip said:
    Javelin's rockets insta gib on direct hits even vs a 100% HP Rhino with explosive resistance. Fletcher's bombs gib when you are below 50 or so health.

    Got any video evidence of that claim?

    Oh, no you don't.

    I was actually going to complain when more than one direct hit rocket on a full HP rhino didn't kill him

    But then I realized he had explosive resistance and it made sense

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