Was introducing Katana the biggest mistake?

Just a fun "what if" topic, regarding an AU scenario, where Phantom didn't have katana.

Do you honestly think, the main reason Phantom was ruined, was because of the katana?
The constant portrayal of the melee merc-backstabber, the abilities he had back in closed beta (like front thrust), or katana being primary weapon instead of SMG (which he lacked).

If he had, say Kukri instead of katana (which would give him a slasher movie villain vibe), how would the whole thing turn out? Funny to think the katana cause a butterfly effect to his demise.

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More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

Comments

  • nokiIInokiII Posts: 534
    Was introducing Katana the biggest mistake?
    Not the biggest, but it's pretty bad.
    nerf snippers.
  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,623
    the only thing that makes katana not worth the risk is the running speed when equipping it.

    if only katana is ability only slash (e.g. press E to slash or Q to slash) and the Cloak is automatically used with no cooldown but phantom will still be very visible if you sprint or jump.

    but thats just my opinion. Surely katana has place among the melee weapons.
    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • Lord_CoctusLord_Coctus Posts: 2,032
    At this point im pretty sure its the peoples fault with their abuse of it instead of Phantom (and kira).
    Roses are red and violets are blue.
    I bang you all!
    Now you're dead too.
  • SaulWolfdenSaulWolfden Posts: 795
    The biggest problem was trying to push that he's supposed to main the weapon, which he isn't supposed to. It's far more useful to headshot people out of cloak instead of katana them. I only use the katana to finish people off and melee people if they are near said person I finished off.
  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741
    The biggest problem was trying to push that he's supposed to main the weapon, which he isn't supposed to. It's far more useful to headshot people out of cloak instead of katana them. I only use the katana to finish people off and melee people if they are near said person I finished off.

    Pretty much this, along with adding onto a guy who can move at higher speeds than Thunder yet tank as much damage with the armor active. His armor itself isn't a bad idea but being able to attack while cloaked is.
    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,762
    DB used to be slower paced:


    No wonder Phantom was lost in translation to fast paced shooter.

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741
    Yea, there's a lot of remnants of that here, such as the TTK and the spread.

    I'd happily have a slower ttk, for a more consistent ttk. Basically the guns will be easier to learn and use properly. Right now the guns are just far too random imo.
    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • BlackboltLWBlackboltLW Posts: 583
    Katana isn't a mistake, introducing katana to Kira, however, is a mistake
  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,762
    Katana isn't a mistake, introducing katana to Kira, however, is a mistake

    Bet nobody tried playing Kira meleeing hard with Cricket Bat before, when Gen 1 cards were only available ones. Quite certain the effects are the same Kiratana.

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • jooshoyesjooshoyes Posts: 322
    Just yes
  • GatoCommodoreGatoCommodore Posts: 3,623
    i scrapped my cobalt cricket bat kira back in the early hours of the catastrophe new crafting system in hope to get the new cobalt katana kira....

    turns out.... i will never get that card back...
    Bayonetta OST-Mysterious Destiny

    Bayonetta, you're a mystery
    You come along with a destiny
    This is your life, a battlefield telling you who you are
    Bayonetta, this is your time
    You're gonna sparkle, you're gonna shine
    Girl, when you fight it looks like a dance, you are magic, you're magic

    Come on, come on, come on, there's only one way, your way
    Come on, come on, come on, you know there's only one way, your way
    Dance, fight, spin around, spin around
    Dance, fight, fly higher, fly higher, fly higher

    Bayonetta, you bury your loneliness deep down in your eyes
    Sadness lies in your smile
    But victory shines in your eyes
    You're still alive
                                                                      
  • JJMAJRJJMAJR Posts: 1,084
    Katana wasn't a mistake, X was.

    Easy reputation points.
  • Katana is not a mistake nor is phantom, people just only try to melee people with phantom all the time is the mistake (and not learning how to play phantom)
  • Katana is not a mistake nor is phantom, people just only try to melee people with phantom all the time is the mistake (and not learning how to play phantom)
  • ThunderZsoltThunderZsolt Posts: 372
    Katana isn't a mistake, introducing katana to Kira, however, is a mistake

    B... But...
    The B84 loadout is sooo much fun. The quickdraw augment is the key - nobody expects getting cut in half by a Kira who was holding a rifle just a moment ago.

    One burst + a quick slash takes care of most mercanaries (with a headshot burst this combo even kills Fragger) and it is easy to pull off (= also works when drunk), takes about the same time as firing a second burst, and the only one thing I find more annoying is a Proxy shooting her own mines.

    Too bad that against good players only works from behind, otherwise they kill me way before I get close.
  • GabebutGoodGabebutGood Posts: 59

    Do you think theres way to buff phantom to capture that lurk melee style that feels better then it currently does, or how would you buff/change phantom to make him fit more in?

  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,187

    lurk style is useless and doesnt fit this game at all. Phantom DOES work as a 'shoot first' peek-a-boom merc currently, but simply doesnt have enough tools to stand out compared to stuff like redeye or snipes

    First!

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  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741

    @Szakalot said:
    lurk style is useless and doesnt fit this game at all. Phantom DOES work as a 'shoot first' peek-a-boom merc currently, but simply doesnt have enough tools to stand out compared to stuff like redeye or snipes

    I'd have to agree with that, though I really dislike game mechanics that allow shooting while cloaked.

    They're either too easy to see, which ruins the whole point, or they are too hard to see, and it's incredibly frustrating. The only game I've seen it work though is Tribes Ascend, and only because that game was INSANELY fast and vertical. Even if the Infiltrator is invisible there is so much spacing there.

    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,187

    i think DB's phantom's cloak is done fairly well. its pretty hard (but not impossible) to spot stationary phantom and easy to see (but not as easy as no cloak) sprinting phantom.

    taking the first shot within 0.5sec after walk-peeking will surprise even the veteran players; but we dont get any of that 'invisibly assuming position for backrape' bullshit

    First!

    48px-First_Blood.png?version=ee44701eadae9f5eb7db0d17c0edc6c9
  • ReddeadcapReddeadcap Posts: 1,296
    edited July 29

    Not really.
    Phantoms high health, even more so when his shield was activated, along with it's lack of overkill damage applying to Phantom after it destroys his shield, piss-use of detection tools since Vasilli's for the most part had been just gathering dust for most players and the lack of a an EMP tool and other Recons is what made Phantom how powerful as he was before.

    SD could've released him with the Cricket Bat, Beckhill and Stiletto as the rest of the cast and people would've still complained about him as no hard counters and a powerful ability were the main culprits.

    That said, I still do stand by his health being lowered along with lengthening the recharge time on his cloak weren't necessary.
    His ability could be changed a bit, have an EMP and stealth set to two different abilities, shield and cloak to two different abilities, better cloaking if it means he'll have to actively uncloak himself before firing his weapon, Maybe have the EMP given back to Thunder and Have a Stealth and Shield to Phantom if his health stays at 110. maybe give him a passive ability where he detects an enemy if he aims down sights at them for a small duration or my comms hacks suggestion with a downed or recently killed enemy, similar both which were done in Brink.

  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,762

    I'm curious what SD is up to. Since balance patch will be in August, they could release a preview of balance changelog.

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

  • BloodySinBloodySin Posts: 238

    Introducing melee as a viable alternative for shooting in a first-person shooter was the biggest mistake. If anything, melee weapons should only serve as an alternative finisher to save bullets and nothing else. Taking a dozen bullets to the chest and walking it off, but dying to one cricket bat swing will likely forever be the top ridiculous game mechanics choice they ever made.

  • GireGire Posts: 42
    edited September 1

    This is a little off the fps style change, but what if they would give Phantom some kind of a "Melee Mastery" passive ability that he does not slowdown when swinging the katana/knife or bat. Plus maybe just a litttle bit some swing sweep.

  • SorotiaSorotia Posts: 1,368
    edited September 3
    Gire wrote: »
    This is a little off the fps style change, but what if they would give Phantom some kind of a "Melee Mastery" passive ability that he does not slowdown when swinging the katana/knife or bat. Plus maybe just a litttle bit some swing sweep.

    Phantom doesn't have a problem dealing melee damage, especially if you have chopper...the problem is this game isn't balanced around melee well, he isn't a rogue...to many people charge groups in the open like he is completely invisible.

    The only way that he would be effective if is they made him completely invisible and unable to be heard. But than that would make him OP...
  • TheStrangerousTheStrangerous Posts: 1,762
    edited September 3

    @Sorotia said:
    Gire wrote: »
    The only way that he would be effective if is they made him completely invisible and unable to be heard. But than that would make him OP...

    TF2 did that right long ago, with Spy's default watch:

    • Full Ghost mode.
    • NO INTERACTIONS
    • Makes a sound when cloaking/decloaking

    SD tries to make Phantom more complex

    • Slightly visible when moving <---Scale---> Fully invisible when stationary
    • Instantly turned off when interacting (attacking, defusing, repairing etc.)
    • Always makes a sound, volume dependent on previous scale.

    Sometimes less is more.

    Fletcher gettin' Sledgehammer melee supporter.
    More arcadey, less grounded gameplay supporter.

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