Why does active C4 determines the winner?

n-xn-x Posts: 675
edited February 2016 in Stopwatch
Just for those of you who dont know. If both teams dont manage to blow up the last objective, but one team has an active C4 on the objective, this team wins.

I find this incredible annoying. I just had a game on Terminal were we blew up the wall early and had countless C4s on the containers, but they were defused every single time.

We change sides. The enemy team needs longer to blow up the wall and has in total less C4s planted. But when the timer ran out, they just had planted one. They win, we lose.

What is the reason behind this rule? Why can one team plant 3 times the C4s but lose, just because the other one planted theirs 1 second before time runs out?

Comments

  • As far as I'm aware this shouldn't happen (unless they removed the draw rule because I didn't read the latest patch notes). Did it actually blow up or did the timer run out before the c4 exploded?
  • n-xn-x Posts: 675
    The timer ran out, bevor the C4 exploded.
  • I believe this is a case of "winning doesn't really matter right now unless you just want the self gratification of knowing your better" :P
  • Same thing just happened with me in ranked, enemy team plants c4 in last few seconds and we lose even though they destroyed the same number of objectives as us
  • sneaksneak Posts: 418
    I don't think that it should even be allowed for the 2nd round offense team to draw or to beat the 1st round offense team because they did more objectives than in the first round. The 2nd round attackers should have to complete the entire map. However, for this to be fair they need to fix the unfair advantage (spawntimes/distance) in the game.
  • RedBeardRedBeard Posts: 259
    sneak wrote: »
    I don't think that it should even be allowed for the 2nd round offense team to draw or to beat the 1st round offense team because they did more objectives than in the first round. The 2nd round attackers should have to complete the entire map. However, for this to be fair they need to fix the unfair advantage (spawntimes/distance) in the game.

    No its much better to balance the mercs and not the core game first.

    WWWWWWWWWWWiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk....
  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 732
    If you look at the game from an objectives view, Team 1 ended the round without destroying any final objectives and no C4 planted. Team 2 did not destroy any more objectives, but did have C4 planted, which puts them a half step closer to victory at the end of the round than Team 1.

    If anything, maybe you should just start making a final push at the end of the round to plant with a few seconds left.

    I've made a post about changing the timers in SW to reflect C4 and EV timing more effectively. With those timers, this scenario can't happen.
  • n-xn-x Posts: 675
    Just to exaggerate a bit:

    Team 1 destroys first objective on first attempt and plants 30 C4s which all get defused in the last second.

    Team 2 destroys first objective way later then Team 1 and is nowhere close to plant a single C4. 1 second before the game ends, they somehow manage to plant a C4. They win.

    I really dont see any angle from which Team 2 deserves the win. As they were only able to plant 1 C4 and to hold this for 1 second. I cant see an argument in "half step closer to victory at the end of the round than Team 1". As Team 1 was 30 times half step closer to victory during the round than Team 2

    Like I said. It's exaggerated, but I just want to make my point clear.
  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 732
    edited March 2016
    Think of it more in terms of this:

    Nothing (0) <--> Plant (.5) --> Destroy (1)

    You start with nothing and get 1 point for a destroy. Planting is a half step closer to destroy. You progress based on your current status. If there's nothing, that counts for no points. If you're planted, well that's a half point. And if you've destroyed it, that's 1 point. If you go from planted and they defuse, you're back to nothing and have no points since Nothing counts for no points. You aren't accumulating points based on the number of times you've done one of these stages of completion, you're getting a point for each status you have active at the end of the timer. Each destroyed objective will be 1 point, and since this can't be reversed, will stay that way. Each plant will be a half point, and each non-plant is nothing.

    If you plant 2 billion times and end the round with no active plants and no destroys, you have no points. If they plant once and end the round with 1 active plant and no destroys, they get a half point for ending the round with a plant.

  • n-xn-x Posts: 675
    edited March 2016
    I am really sorry, but I think we can stop arguing now. We wont agree on that. And you just made this half point system up so it fits your solution. I could make a point system up, in which every plant gives you 0.1 points and every defended second 0.01 points. Fact is, that in our example Team 1 is clearly better than Team 2 and Team 2 just wins, because they got lucky they planted their C4 at a certain point in time. And luck should never win over skill.
  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 732
    edited March 2016
    I was never arguing I was telling you why the game thinks you lost lol. As far as the game is concerned, a team that has an active plant when time runs out has made more progress than a team that does not have an active plant when time runs out. The invented point system was just a visual aid to help you understand why the game thinks having an active plant is more progress. I never said I like it either, in fact:
    I've made a post about changing the timers in SW to reflect C4 and EV timing more effectively. With those timers, this scenario can't happen.

    I said, in this thread, that I made a suggestion thread that would prevent this exact thing from happening.

    Read before crying ty

    And I wouldn't exactly say luck won over skill. Why wasn't your team defending against a plant in the last few seconds? If someone was there covering, they couldn't have done it. Maybe there was and that guy died. By luck? I don't know. Sounds like your team wasn't performing well enough to keep them from planting in the last critical seconds.

  • n-xn-x Posts: 675
    Like I said. No point arguing.

    -Never heard of this more progress explanation. What I heard was that every time this happens everybody on the server is going wtf?!? If that is really the official idea behind that rule... well. I dont get it.

    - Didnt bother to read your thread.

    -Never cried.

    -Team 2 wasnt performing well enough to keep the Team 1 from planting several times. Team 1 couldnt keep Team 2 from planting 1 time. Team 2 wins, because it happens in a magic moment. Sure.
  • blonkblonk Posts: 417
    Kelben wrote: »
    Like I said. No point arguing.

    -Never heard of this more progress explanation. What I heard was that every time this happens everybody on the server is going wtf?!? If that is really the official idea behind that rule... well. I dont get it.

    - Didnt bother to read your thread.

    -Never cried.

    -Team 2 wasnt performing well enough to keep the Team 1 from planting several times. Team 1 couldnt keep Team 2 from planting 1 time. Team 2 wins, because it happens in a magic moment. Sure.

    He's presented a pretty logical explanation for why the active C4 determines the winner, @MidnightButterSweats wasn't even arguing at all until you started attempting to argue with him. Of course he "made up" a point system, he was hypothesising a solution to your question. Take a chill pill.
  • n-xn-x Posts: 675
    Yeah, you are right @blonk. I asked for an explanation and he gave me one and I was a douchebag about it. Sorry @MidnightButterSweats.

    Seems I was so annoyed by this rule, I let my frustration out on you.
  • blonkblonk Posts: 417
    Think of it more in terms of this:

    Nothing (0) <--> Plant (.5) --> Destroy (1)

    You start with nothing and get 1 point for a destroy. Planting is a half step closer to destroy. You progress based on your current status. If there's nothing, that counts for no points. If you're planted, well that's a half point. And if you've destroyed it, that's 1 point. If you go from planted and they defuse, you're back to nothing and have no points since Nothing counts for no points. You aren't accumulating points based on the number of times you've done one of these stages of completion, you're getting a point for each status you have active at the end of the timer. Each destroyed objective will be 1 point, and since this can't be reversed, will stay that way. Each plant will be a half point, and each non-plant is nothing.

    If you plant 2 billion times and end the round with no active plants and no destroys, you have no points. If they plant once and end the round with 1 active plant and no destroys, they get a half point for ending the round with a plant.

    If you view DB in terms of a sport this does make sense to a degree, though I do wonder that if one team is constantly applying pressure through a whole round, planting every other minute, whereas one team just gets lucky and happens to have an active C4 at the end of the round, which team truely is better? Would it still be the defenders since they prevented all those plants from taking place, or could it have been through the actions of one really ace player and a team of potatoes? It would be interesting if the game provided some stats at the end of the round, like the number of attempts on an objective, number of team wipes etc.. While the game can have a black and white win/loss goal, as @sgtCrookyGrin suggests the metrics of which team did better is actually pretty subjective.
  • bgyoshibgyoshi Posts: 732
    I don't think active plants at the end of the game should be taken into account. I don't think the number of plants should matter, either.. but for the sake of removing a Draw as a possible outcome, it would make sense. What might make more sense, though, is considering how LONG the longest plant was. Say neither team destroys the objectives, but one team had a 37 second long plant while the other team only had a 35 second long plant. That means Team 1 would win. I think that would make more sense.

    But, obviously, my push is to have a Threshold timer that shows when the last possible plant could happen in order to have enough time for it to blow, and if it's defused or not planted beyond this timer, the game just ends, regardless.
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