Aura vs Sawbonez - Balancing Suggestion

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  • Ardez1Ardez1 Posts: 3,288
    Agreed with R5on11c. It doesn't need a cooldown. There are a lot of other variables that can be modified. In particular I think the reducing damage to finish downed enemies option should be explored.

    Also, a lot has been said about Aura's healing station, but has the augment Potent Packs been looked at in relation to this? Is it possible that we are overlooking the augment and putting too much focus into the station itself? I feel like the current view of it being too strong is when Potent Packs is involved on the players loadout. I have used Aura with and without the potent packs, and it definitely seems overpowered with the augment there, but reasonable without it.
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  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,187
    R5on11c wrote: »

    That's some mad doublestandard there. Sawbonez and Aura should be able to self heal at the same rate. What the rate exactly should be, is a different story. Aura has the ability to heal multiple allies at the same time and is fragile while sawbonez can pack a second punch and is forced to be in the frontlines to be effective. The conclusion that Aura has to have the higher healing rate doesn't really make sense to me.

    Why should they? Sawbonez can heal himself whenever he wants by throwing a medpack at his feet. Aura has to plonk a station down, which either means the station goes wherever she goes, or she doesn't go anywhere - so the station can stay and protect teammates.

    Two vastly different healing mechanics. Also, Aura is the squishest merc in a game, dying from very few shots. So faster self-heal is less impactful for her, than it would be for sawbonez.
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  • R5on11cR5on11c Posts: 98
    Szakalot wrote: »
    R5on11c wrote: »

    That's some mad doublestandard there. Sawbonez and Aura should be able to self heal at the same rate. What the rate exactly should be, is a different story. Aura has the ability to heal multiple allies at the same time and is fragile while sawbonez can pack a second punch and is forced to be in the frontlines to be effective. The conclusion that Aura has to have the higher healing rate doesn't really make sense to me.

    Why should they? Sawbonez can heal himself whenever he wants by throwing a medpack at his feet. Aura has to plonk a station down, which either means the station goes wherever she goes, or she doesn't go anywhere - so the station can stay and protect teammates.

    Two vastly different healing mechanics. Also, Aura is the squishest merc in a game, dying from very few shots. So faster self-heal is less impactful for her, than it would be for sawbonez.

    Have you ever played aura? You can dispense healing to yourself on demand. If played right your are just as mobile (or even more) as sawbonez. The healing station also gives you the (unfair) advantage of constant heal. That that selfheal is even faster than Sawbonez doesn't make a lot of sense since you can simply camp-heal-gun out your enemies and move on to the next corner while almost loosing no time on the healing station, since you can pick it up and re-place it at will. So no, she DOES go almost everywhere. In fact she is the fastest class and can do ouright ridiculous manuevers that would mean the certain death to every other class.
  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,187
    Have you read what I said:

    either station goes wherever she goes

    or station stays to help teammates.

    Sawbonez can heal anyone AND go wherever he wants to go.
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  • R5on11cR5on11c Posts: 98
    As the limitation to the heal dispensing are the same on both mercs (you put healing packs down, you put the station down) your words make a sentence but not an argument. They have the same restrictions when it comes to mobility. There is no use in arguing any further with you if you still want to proclaim that there is a difference gameplaywise.
  • R5on11cR5on11c Posts: 98
    I do not say she doesn't require the healing rate, as she is easily taken down. Though, the ridiculous healingrate shouldn't compensate for that as her current max HP is just a measurement on how one-hittable she is. A little health boost and a little speed slowdown + a lower self heal would fit perfectly fine.

    But at the current state he healing station makes her basically invincible from everything that doesn't ourtight obliterate her and a self heal factor THAT high, is not the way to balance it.
  • SzakalotSzakalot Posts: 3,187
    R5on11c wrote: »
    As the limitation to the heal dispensing are the same on both mercs (you put healing packs down, you put the station down) your words make a sentence but not an argument. They have the same restrictions when it comes to mobility. There is no use in arguing any further with you if you still want to proclaim that there is a difference gameplaywise.

    Let me break it down for you:

    Sawbonez can run from one position to another and drop healthpacks for teammates. I'm not certain how long they stay in game, but probably something around 30-45sec, long enough to matter in the upcoming engagements. This allows Sawbonez to create pockets of healpower in different corners of the map. He can also throw the medpacks, and if you combine it with a jump (or long jump) the distance potential increases, allowing you to heal people at a distance, out of harms way.

    Aura on the other hand has to plonk the station down to heal anybody. If Aura wants to heal two people in different areas, the station cooldown of 5 seconds is the minimum bottleneck. Aura's station can also be destroyed, negating any healing potential until cooldown is restored. Due to her low HP Aura also relies on her station during combat. This, combined with her close-combat gamestyle (excluding the blishlok loadouts) forces Aura's station to be permanently fixed to her location. She can't plonk the station down and run off to fight enemies, as she will most certainly die.

    I definitely AGREE that the present self-heal rate for Aura is too much. But reducing it to sawbonez self-heal rate will make Aura unviable.
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  • RuvanRuvan Posts: 18
    The trouble with the healing station mechanic is that it's too simple and binary. There's not enough depth to healing stations to balance them properly.

    I wouldn't try to balance the healing by outright nerfing it but by adding some more nuances to it.

    For example, you could add a secondary ability to the original mechanic that slowly heals everyone in the vicinity of the Aura. The turret itself could be given a longer cooldown and resistance to explosives; becoming much more like an ultimate ability. Activating the turret would disable the slow passive heal for say 20 seconds.

    Honestly, the problem with Sawbonez in comparison to Aura at the moment is just the amount of healing he can put out in comparison. Changing Aura might be sufficient, however, it might also be a good idea to grant Sawbonez another Med Kit or faster recharge.
  • RuneforceRuneforce Posts: 563
    edited April 2015
    For example, you could add a secondary ability to the original mechanic that slowly heals everyone in the vicinity of the Aura.

    You could, but then Phoenix would be a jobless merc. :)

    Give Saw same movement speed as Aura, problems solved.
  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741
    I think people need to stop and realize something, maybe the merc isn't underpowered but rather does not fit your style of play. I can safely say as powerful as Aura is I still prefer Sawbonez because he's a far more aggressive offensive Medic than Aura. She's really more of a Medic made for holding down an area rather than a Medic that aids in a Push or Objectives.

    So before you make any more stupid suggestions like buffing Sawbonez' speed, think about how you use him, or her in the other case.
    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • RuneforceRuneforce Posts: 563
    edited April 2015
    I will admit that I find Aura much more fun, solely because of her speed, but...

    Perhaps switch the abilities of Aura and Saw? But that does not seem radical enough, so obviously the answer would be to try and boost Saw's move speed.

    The thing about medics is speed is king. Any medics (asuming they can't revive from a distance) that are moving slower are already underpowered, because they are not as effective in their primary role of reviving, since time is HP. Of course you could use the time is money argument on all classes, but speed is a major factor for keeping waves alive, and gimping that ability is huge for the role.
    Sawbonez does have more health, but he is also a larger target, and have a different, but IMO overall slightly less usefull ability + he's gimped in his primary ability of reviving.

    I would really like to see all medics have the same fast movement speed and a larger overlab of weapons between them. So it is fine if the healing station is better then the medpacks (on fortified positions), because the merc that has it is slightly weaker in health. Of course you could go the other way and nerf the healing station, but that would not solve the class effeciency problem I sketched above.
    Post edited by Runeforce on
  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741
    edited April 2015
    Again, that is all based on your own perspective, I personally don't think Sawbonez is underpowered at all. The Med Kits are easy to drop and give someone, they recharge fairly quickly, and I can have up to 3, so if I am sticking with 2 other people to lead a push or guard the plant spot I can keep everyone up and moving without slowing down.

    More speed is only good if you're actually moving, which Aura usually isn't, if anything her speed is meant to allow her to retreat easier when the defense is finished and she needs to fallback, that and she's a shotgun user, unlike Saw who uses SMGs.

    It all comes down to preference, there will likely be more Medics added but each one is meant to appeal to a specific style of playing, I don't think any of them are really too overpowered per say, but I do think that they should not be tanks, in that they shouldn't be able to heal themselves so fast they can absorb incoming damage. I notice that problem a LOT more with Aura. I also don't think it should take so much time finish someone off, it feels like it takes the exact same amount of shots to finish someone as it does to kill them outright.
    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • RuneforceRuneforce Posts: 563
    edited April 2015
    Again, that is all based on your own perspective, I personally don't think Sawbonez is underpowered at all.

    Yes it is. We are not really talking about the same thing here. You are talking about the medpacks vs. healing stations balance (or how healing abilities affect styles of play,) I am talking about the class effeciency in keeping waves alive (or how the ability to effeciently revive targets, determines a medics value.)
    I also don't think it should take so much time finish someone off, it feels like it takes the exact same amount of shots to finish someone as it does to kill them outright.

    I could not disagree more. This would be a huge debuff to all medics and a huge buff to everybody else and especially campers. Use your knife.
    Post edited by Runeforce on
  • watsyurdealwatsyurdeal Posts: 4,741
    edited April 2015
    To the first response, to that I say the problem isn't Sawbonez, it's Aura. Her healing station should be like dispenser, a fall back area, not an offensive healing tool. Or at least that's how it should be, Aura right now, with her healing station can tank damage and heal people rapidly. How it works needs to change, a simple delay in healing while taking damage or a slower heal rate would be fine.

    And to the second, yes it is a debuff, cause right now there's no other way to deny a revive except a direct explosive, a sniper headshot, or the knife. Think of how many things fit the bill....very little.

    When you kill someone and you aren't in range to knife them, it's basically double their HP. So if I killed a Fragger, 150 HP to kill, 150 HP to finish.

    How is that fair in a scenario where I killed someone at medium range, I run to knife them, only for them to get revived and now I am in a 2 v 1 fight I can not win. That is bullshit, I got the kill, I should at least be able to deny a revive on headshot, or have to only deal a tad more damage, 50% of their health, to finish them.
    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • RuneforceRuneforce Posts: 563
    How is that fair in a scenario where I killed someone at medium range, I run to knife them, only for them to get revived and now I am in a 2 v 1 fight I can not win. That is bullshit, I got the kill, I should at least be able to deny a revive on headshot, or have to only deal a tad more damage, 50% of their health, to finish them.

    So about that, I will play the jerk card and throw your own quote at you:
    I think people need to stop and realize something, maybe the merc isn't underpowered but rather does not fit your style of play.

  • Sawbonez with crotzini > any aura
  • So just remniscend:
    - Ramping up healing speed seems to be something we can mostly agree on
    - Still open wether Aura should have a slowed heal or not
    - Defibrilator CD discussion will be continued once we are done with the above

    About wether Aura should have a weaker self heal or not, I have another idea:
    Why not simply say that healing ramps up slower for her? (My opinion that her heal should be weaker in some way is obvious I'd say, but I'm open to discuss how and how much - I'm always open to discussions as long as they don't end in a rant or I can't accept the basic concept which was presented to me)

    You're open to discussion? You created a discussion, you don't get to mediate/validate everything everyone says here.
  • please note that aura is a beginners merc, it would be terrible if aura had all little small things like cooldown on defibs (what is a bad idea anyways) , health ramp up and slower self heal, aura has to be like plug-and-play for new players.
    i suggest just make the heal slower ONLY
  • cornJestercornJester Posts: 1,043
    please note that aura is a beginners merc, it would be terrible if aura had all little small things like cooldown on defibs (what is a bad idea anyways) , health ramp up and slower self heal, aura has to be like plug-and-play for new players.
    i suggest just make the heal slower ONLY
    Congratulations, @Myself_Deal_with_it you just necroposted in a 6 month old thread. Next time instead of suggesting things in an extremely outdated thread make a new one...

    A lot has changed from 6 months ago and it's confusing to see this on the top of the page only to realize that it's an extremely outdated discussion because someone dug through the very back of the forums and posted there.
    "I'mma let you finish but RNG is the worst of all time." - Kanye Invest
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  • cornJester wrote: »
    please note that aura is a beginners merc, it would be terrible if aura had all little small things like cooldown on defibs (what is a bad idea anyways) , health ramp up and slower self heal, aura has to be like plug-and-play for new players.
    i suggest just make the heal slower ONLY
    Congratulations, @Myself_Deal_with_it you just necroposted in a 6 month old thread. Next time instead of suggesting things in an extremely outdated thread make a new one...

    A lot has changed from 6 months ago and it's confusing to see this on the top of the page only to realize that it's an extremely outdated discussion because someone dug through the very back of the forums and posted there.

    ok
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