Why is the PDP-70 getting repeated nerfs?

The PDP-70, as we should know, is available to two mercs - Vasilli and Redeye.

When people play Vasilli, they almost never choose the PDP-70 over the MOA or even the FEL-IX. I actually have the best PDP loadout for Vasilli in Cobalt and I always pick the bolt actions over it anyway. So in comparison to the MOA and FEL-IX alternatives, the PDP-70 looks like it needs a buff.

And when people play Redeye they... Wait, who am I kidding? No one plays Redeye! Partly because he is so bad in combat since his weapons of choice are really not very viable. His abilities (smoke grenades and IR goggles) vastly outmatch Vasilli's motion sensors, so it's pretty clear that the reason he isn't used is because of his poor combat abilities. In that sense, it seems logical to buff his weapons, including the PDP-70.

So between both mercs who are able to take the PDP-70, it seems that the PDP is far from competitive in its ability, let alone overpowered. So why is the PDP-70 receiving nerfs every single time a weapon balance patch comes out? First we had the removal of its insta-gib, then a drop in its firerate, and now a drop in its magazine size.

So to conclude this post, I really don't understand why the PDP-70 is getting constantly nerfed, despite its clear inability to provide effective combat abilities to either of the mercs who can access it. If anything, it needs a buff.
«1

Comments

  • Because it's literally a 0% skill weapon that's about spamming down enemies instead of actually sniping.
  • Because it's literally a 0% skill weapon that's about spamming down enemies instead of actually sniping.

    I always find it funny that people always hate spammy weapons instead of instakill weapons. (kof kof CS awp vs auto-sniper)

    With moa you can instakill with one headshot and possibly kill everyone behind the target and it takes only 2 body shots to kill everyone exepth rhino (he takes 3 shots).

    Now with PDP you have to shoot your target max 2-4 times (rhino 5 times) and headshots do not instagib.

    Now the difference here is that player has to stay on target more with the PDP than with the MOA.

    If people get angry by spammy weapons then should we nerf Dreissar and Grandeur? since they are spammy long range guns?

    So which has more skill, a weapon that needs more shots to kill a target or weapon that can instakill? While yes, bot MOA and PDP need 2 shots to kill light mercs but after that all the heavier mercs (starting from 100hp) need 3-4 pdp shots and moa needs still only 2.

    Also, take a hold of this, some people actualy aim for the head with the PDP and dont spam.
  • If these people aim for the head why are they then even using a pdp when the moa is one shot kill (except rhino) on headshots...?

    The only reason to take the pdp is to spray down people. @omegaskorpion
  • If these people aim for the head why are they then even using a pdp when the moa is one shot kill (except rhino) on headshots...?

    The only reason to take the pdp is to spray down people. @omegaskorpion

    And only time people want to use pdp is because they have no other choice.

    Now the advantage of PDP is faster fire rate and mag size and it can be pretty devastating if player shoots people in the head, taking out targets one after other.

    But then again the MOA would be better since it makes sure that medics cant resurect your shotten enemies and it can deal more damage anyway.

    The problem is that the PDP isnt good weapon realy, even with spamming its not good.
    Yes its a spammy gun but its not good even at that.

    Grandeur would be amazing if not for the damage being random some times or the sights or the recoil and so on.

    Dreissar would be good if not for the ROF nerf it got.

    The only ok weapon for redeye is PDP since it always deals the 45 damage and has better sniping capabilites, but it sucks because you cant aim effectively from the hip in close range like grandeur and it wont be as usefull as other snipers.

    PDP is just bad weapon that gets nerfed all the time.

    It was not good when only vasily had it,
    Its not good now when redeye has it.

    Possible balance that could be done to it would be reduce its rof, incease the hip accuracy to about same levels as the grandeur and let it be most balanced close and long range rifle.
    Bolt action still would rule the range.
    Grandeur would still rule the close/medium range.
    Dreissar would still be Dreissar.
  • If these people aim for the head why are they then even using a pdp when the moa is one shot kill (except rhino) on headshots...?

    The only reason to take the pdp is to spray down people. @omegaskorpion

    Sure, that's an argument for Vasilli players who use the PDP instead of the bolt actions, but what about Redeye? The PDP is his MOST skill-based weapon (slowest firerate, highest damage), so surely his most skill-based weapon should reward the player with a good reward of combat efficiency?
  • Redeye always seemed more of a grandeur guy to me xD
  • Amerika_KCAmerika_KC Posts: 4,848Moderator
    The PDP in the hands of a player with amazing tracking is ridiculously good. Put it behind a smoke cloud and you start to understand why they removed the HS gibbing power it had. You might not agree with the logic, and I'm not sure if I do either, but I can understand the position of SD of not wanting it to become a problem. I also think they are moving more towards removing insta-gibbing from the game or limiting it and starting with the PDP. Which makes a kind of sense because you never went for headshots with the PDP anyway like you do with the Moa. If you did happen to get one at the end it was always more of a bonus as opposed to expected in most situations.

    I don't feel as though it needed the 1 round and reload time increase nerfs it got yesterday but I don't feel as though it changes much either. The weapon is still useful and has it's place. And typically, in almost every FPS game, weapons of this nature are pretty much hated by most players and tend to be slightly weaker choices anyway. The PDP is far better in DB than in most games.

    I think the extra rounds in the mag was to compensate for needing to fire more shots to gib players but I'd wager their ECHO data suggested it was one shot too many. This definitely feels like an ECHO inspired change as opposed to a dev team or community consensus.

    My views and comments are entirely my own. I am a volunteer mod and I help with forum tasks. My word carries the same weight as anybody else posting...no more, no less. Think of me more as a forum janitor who cleans when needed as opposed to a cop who wants to bust you :)
  • Redeye always seemed more of a grandeur guy to me xD

    But the Grandeur sucks just as much as the PDP does. The Dreiss is okay, but still could use a buff as well. My point is, however, that the PDP is the most skill-based of all of Redeye's weapons and yet it is also not the best AND Redeye still doesn't see much play because of his poor combat effectiveness - so why aren't we buffing his guns, and also, why are we NERFING his most skill-based gun?

    The fact that the PDP is also available to Vasilli is slightly irrelevant, since Vas players will always pick the MOA/FEL-IX over the PDP anyway. But the point is that the PDP is currently not an effective choice for EITHER of the mercs who can use the PDP, so why is it always getting nerfed?
  • People don't seem to realize how truly devastating this weapon is, assuming you actually know how to aim and know what you're doing, you're putting down people in about 1/3 of a second at long range, and considering all of the open areas and quick scope in time, it's incredibly potent.

    The changes they give to the gun are intentionally trying to cut down on how easy it is to spam the weapon and give people more reason to actually take their time with each shot, therefore slowing down it's time to kill.

    Also, I disagree that the PDP is the only weapon Red Eye has. Grandeur is hard to use sure but it is still VERY potent. Same with the Dreiss.
    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • People don't seem to realize how truly devastating this weapon is, assuming you actually know how to aim and know what you're doing, you're putting down people in about 1/3 of a second at long range, and considering all of the open areas and quick scope in time, it's incredibly potent.

    The changes they give to the gun are intentionally trying to cut down on how easy it is to spam the weapon and give people more reason to actually take their time with each shot, therefore slowing down it's time to kill.

    Also, I disagree that the PDP is the only weapon Red Eye has. Grandeur is hard to use sure but it is still VERY potent. Same with the Dreiss.

    So you're saying that Redeye is already strong enough as it is? It's pretty obvious from the current meta that he's a very unpopular choice - all of his guns in my opinion are pretty worthless. My main problem is that their high DPS is based on the idea that you are firing at the highest possible speed, but if you are firing at that speed you CANNOT be accurate due to the unpredictable side-to-side recoil pattern. Apart from the Dreiss, all of Redeye's guns almost HAVE to be fired with ADS (although even the Dreiss loses its hipfire accuracy after the 3rd shot), so you can't duck and weave while firing. You're concept of "it can take people down in about 1/3 of a second at long range" is ludicrous, as to take someone down at the range you have to hit the head and then IMMEDIATELY fire the next shot into their body - that second shot is absolutely based on luck in terms of which direction your recoil will go (left or right). I would say that if you get lucky, you can get this 1/3 of a second kill, but if you're unlucky you end up hitting them once, missing them the second time, giving them a chance to run to cover, then you might hit them with the third shot. But at this point, you've exposed yourself for a long time AND you've used up what is now a full third of your magazine. [Also, I saw that you want there to be predictable recoils on all the guns in DB - that's exactly why the PDP is so @$!#].

    As well as this, guns that have higher damage and slower firerates are much less efficient at taking out enemies, as they are more likely to be dealing far more damage than is necessary to kill the opponent. So let's say you have an enemy Sawbonez/Bushwhacker/Fletcher coming at you (110hp). You could use a KEK-10 and perfectly take him down in exactly 10 shots, without doing any extra unnecessary damage OR you could use a PDP-70, hit him twice putting him down to 20 health, and then having to take a THIRD shot which does 25 damage more than it needs to, making the gun very inefficient. This drastically reduces the time to kill even though the PDP's DPS is actually higher than the KEK-10's. Then when you factor in the fact that it's easier to be more consistent with a faster firerate, lower damaging gun and you can see why the DPS doesn't tell the full story.

    In my opinion, we need to either:
    1. Get rid of the side-to-side recoil to make the recoil pattern more predictable but also increase the amount of upwards recoil so that you still have to reacquire your target after each shot.
    2. Increase the damage and drop the firerate (damage to 50 per bullet, but drop the firerate by about 10% to balance the DPS). That way it's more about pacing AND aiming your shots and getting higher rewards for your accuracy, rather than spam firing after your initial shot and hoping that the unpredictable recoil doesn't @$!# you over.
  • DawnlazyDawnlazy Posts: 1,157
    They already nerfed the firerate, no need to nerf it again. I'm not sure about whether or not I like the PDP, it's an autosniper but it feels like it kinda sucks for spamming and is quite headshot dependent.
  • Dawnrazor wrote: »
    They already nerfed the firerate, no need to nerf it again. I'm not sure about whether or not I like the PDP, it's an autosniper but it feels like it kinda sucks for spamming and is quite headshot dependent.

    Kof... Semi-Auto sniper ^^
  • ProfPlump wrote: »
    People don't seem to realize how truly devastating this weapon is, assuming you actually know how to aim and know what you're doing, you're putting down people in about 1/3 of a second at long range, and considering all of the open areas and quick scope in time, it's incredibly potent.

    The changes they give to the gun are intentionally trying to cut down on how easy it is to spam the weapon and give people more reason to actually take their time with each shot, therefore slowing down it's time to kill.

    Also, I disagree that the PDP is the only weapon Red Eye has. Grandeur is hard to use sure but it is still VERY potent. Same with the Dreiss.

    So you're saying that Redeye is already strong enough as it is? It's pretty obvious from the current meta that he's a very unpopular choice - all of his guns in my opinion are pretty worthless. My main problem is that their high DPS is based on the idea that you are firing at the highest possible speed, but if you are firing at that speed you CANNOT be accurate due to the unpredictable side-to-side recoil pattern. Apart from the Dreiss, all of Redeye's guns almost HAVE to be fired with ADS (although even the Dreiss loses its hipfire accuracy after the 3rd shot), so you can't duck and weave while firing. You're concept of "it can take people down in about 1/3 of a second at long range" is ludicrous, as to take someone down at the range you have to hit the head and then IMMEDIATELY fire the next shot into their body - that second shot is absolutely based on luck in terms of which direction your recoil will go (left or right). I would say that if you get lucky, you can get this 1/3 of a second kill, but if you're unlucky you end up hitting them once, missing them the second time, giving them a chance to run to cover, then you might hit them with the third shot. But at this point, you've exposed yourself for a long time AND you've used up what is now a full third of your magazine. [Also, I saw that you want there to be predictable recoils on all the guns in DB - that's exactly why the PDP is so @$!#].

    As well as this, guns that have higher damage and slower firerates are much less efficient at taking out enemies, as they are more likely to be dealing far more damage than is necessary to kill the opponent. So let's say you have an enemy Sawbonez/Bushwhacker/Fletcher coming at you (110hp). You could use a KEK-10 and perfectly take him down in exactly 10 shots, without doing any extra unnecessary damage OR you could use a PDP-70, hit him twice putting him down to 20 health, and then having to take a THIRD shot which does 25 damage more than it needs to, making the gun very inefficient. This drastically reduces the time to kill even though the PDP's DPS is actually higher than the KEK-10's. Then when you factor in the fact that it's easier to be more consistent with a faster firerate, lower damaging gun and you can see why the DPS doesn't tell the full story.

    In my opinion, we need to either:
    1. Get rid of the side-to-side recoil to make the recoil pattern more predictable but also increase the amount of upwards recoil so that you still have to reacquire your target after each shot.
    2. Increase the damage and drop the firerate (damage to 50 per bullet, but drop the firerate by about 10% to balance the DPS). That way it's more about pacing AND aiming your shots and getting higher rewards for your accuracy, rather than spam firing after your initial shot and hoping that the unpredictable recoil doesn't @$!# you over.



    To sum it up


    I'm saying people don't realize how powerful the PDP truly is

    So hey, I have a small guide here you may like, go ahead, read it, you know you want to.


    ダーティーボムは非常に良いですが、あなたは非常に悪いです
  • Amerika_KCAmerika_KC Posts: 4,848Moderator
    That's the thing. The PDP is one of the bigger secrets in DB. If you are aggressive with it and have solid tracking/aim in general you'll destroy with it. The issue is the same players good with the PDP will be really good with the Moa so you typically only see players who aren't as seasoned using the PDP (at least in my experience).

    I've got some older pre-HS nerf vids of me using it on Vassili that shows off how crazy good it was. I should probably do some with Redeye and the new PDP setup.

    My views and comments are entirely my own. I am a volunteer mod and I help with forum tasks. My word carries the same weight as anybody else posting...no more, no less. Think of me more as a forum janitor who cleans when needed as opposed to a cop who wants to bust you :)
  • BananaSlugBananaSlug Posts: 1,895
    nah the pdp is fine
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)━☆゚.*・。゚ SD
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    woosh, keep going
    keeeeeeeep goin!
    yee, you guessed it... keeeeeeep goin
    lol you really want to see the end
    you almost got to the end
    lol, no
    i will tell you now, there is nothing at the end
    nothing i say
    ok, maybe something
    curiosity is the first step to hell
    my mom said that not sure why
    and bang here is the end
    you will be very suprised
    I
    LIKE
    B(no not bananas)
    BUCKETS
    you fool, why would you trust me, lol
    kek
    lmao
    did you know that you cannot die, because you eat banans
    thats because they make you immortal
    its scientific fact
    and i confirmed that many times
    eat bananas or die, i say
    there is always lenny at the end ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    sometimes even a wall of them
    ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)[/spoiler[/spoiler[/spoiler
  • god1god1 Posts: 363
    Can't be anything else than echo data and since the gun is such a rare sight it's mainly used by people who know how to play so the data makes the gun seem much stronger than it is.
  • I use the pdp on vas all the time and on the guy that no one plays a.k.a Redeye I use the grandeur over the pdp
  • GildedDark wrote: »
    I use the pdp on vas all the time and on the guy that no one plays a.k.a Redeye I use the grandeur over the pdp

    And the Grandeur would be good if not for the recoil, terible sights and unpredictable damage.
    Currently i can dominate with Dreissar + Redeye but even that weapon needs some fire rate buffs since it loses most of the time to all automatic weapons.
  • MatunoMatuno Posts: 606
    Because the PDP in the right hands would become an all-purpose and pretty darn overpowered weapon. I have a gold PDP setup for both Vassili and RedEye, and one RedEye I become nigh unstoppable.

    The nerf was deserved, the PDP was far too potent at taking out large groups from nearly any range.
  • Matuno wrote: »
    Because the PDP in the right hands would become an all-purpose and pretty darn overpowered weapon. I have a gold PDP setup for both Vassili and RedEye, and one RedEye I become nigh unstoppable.

    The nerf was deserved, the PDP was far too potent at taking out large groups from nearly any range.

    I play the game a lot, and I don't think I've ever noticed myself or my team being dominated by someone with a PDP... Or dominated by any Redeye loadout whatsoever.
  • Doesn't that fact confirm that the nerf was a good thing ?

    Because when a sniper which is a single person, can dominate a team, that probably mean something is unbalanced, don't you think ?
  • god1god1 Posts: 363
    Vaasref wrote: »
    Doesn't that fact confirm that the nerf was a good thing ?

    Because when a sniper which is a single person, can dominate a team, that probably mean something is unbalanced, don't you think ?

    PDP-70 has nothing to do with Vassili's dominance and Red Eye never dominated in the first place.
  • Vaasref wrote: »
    Doesn't that fact confirm that the nerf was a good thing ?

    Because when a sniper which is a single person, can dominate a team, that probably mean something is unbalanced, don't you think ?

    No, I'm sayhing that I never noticed the PDP being overpowered BEFORE the nerf. I barely see it at all now, but before when it was an all-round stronger weapon it never seemed overpowered at all. If anything it was still a little underpowered.

    That said, the insta-gib was most definitely OP. The firerate and mag sizes were definitely not.
  • MatunoMatuno Posts: 606
    ProfPlump wrote: »
    Vaasref wrote: »
    Doesn't that fact confirm that the nerf was a good thing ?

    Because when a sniper which is a single person, can dominate a team, that probably mean something is unbalanced, don't you think ?

    No, I'm sayhing that I never noticed the PDP being overpowered BEFORE the nerf. I barely see it at all now, but before when it was an all-round stronger weapon it never seemed overpowered at all. If anything it was still a little underpowered.

    That said, the insta-gib was most definitely OP. The firerate and mag sizes were definitely not.

    It doesn't see much use because most players can't properly play with it. As stated by Amerika earlier, when used aggressively it absolutely shreds people with hardly any chance of retaliating. Most people use a low mouse sensitivity and can't turn/track at close range, but the few that can (and have decent aim) can even take out a Rhino face-to-face.
  • RoboLawyerRoboLawyer Posts: 6
    edited September 2015
    Matuno wrote: »
    ProfPlump wrote: »
    Vaasref wrote: »
    Doesn't that fact confirm that the nerf was a good thing ?

    Because when a sniper which is a single person, can dominate a team, that probably mean something is unbalanced, don't you think ?

    No, I'm sayhing that I never noticed the PDP being overpowered BEFORE the nerf. I barely see it at all now, but before when it was an all-round stronger weapon it never seemed overpowered at all. If anything it was still a little underpowered.

    That said, the insta-gib was most definitely OP. The firerate and mag sizes were definitely not.

    It doesn't see much use because most players can't properly play with it. As stated by Amerika earlier, when used aggressively it absolutely shreds people with hardly any chance of retaliating. Most people use a low mouse sensitivity and can't turn/track at close range, but the few that can (and have decent aim) can even take out a Rhino face-to-face.

    Exactly what I wanted to say. I went from hating the PDP, to loving it to death. The PDP is perfect for my play style: aggressive-mobile sniping, and sometimes even CQC (close quarters combat).
  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 131

    @neverplayseriou said:
    If these people aim for the head why are they then even using a pdp when the moa is one shot kill (except rhino) on headshots...?

    The only reason to take the pdp is to spray down people. @omegaskorpion

    Actually, the PDP (if it wasnt such crap now) is still used for sniping, it's just the forgivingness that it has thats liked.

  • Why do you revive 3 year old threads? This is not the first one already.

  • HadronZodiacHadronZodiac Posts: 131

    @SiwaonaDaphnewen said:
    Why do you revive 3 year old threads? This is not the first one already.

    I search up a topic, read and reply, like anyone would kid :)

  • If you have something constructive to say on subject it is much better to start new thread.

    Not revive really really old one. It is poitnless. This one is likely to get closed just like this thread
    http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/31278/is-rhino-considered-balanced
    or this one http://forums.dirtybomb.com/discussion/37221/mk46-weak
    all revived by you.

    You not only revive them, but also reply to somebody's quotes made YEARS ago. The subject may have been changed so many times by now.

    Am I right @Eox ?

This discussion has been closed.